Many journos in the mainstream media had noted that Iraqi PM-designate Nouri al-Maliki went to Najaf Thursday to meet with Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, and that Sistani’s office afterwards issued a statement calling for the dismantling of the country’s powerful militias. (E.g., here.). But it has taken long-time Sistani-watcher Reidar Visser to– once again– help us put that visit into a broader and more informative context.
Having studied Sistani’s latest statement (bayan) carefully, Visser writes in this helpful piece of analysis on his website that,
- The breaking news from Najaf is … [that] Sistani indicates that he could once more become more involved in Iraqi politics: the religious leadership will “watch”, “keep an eye on” or “monitor” (the Arabic verb raqaba in form III) governmental performance in the future. This is quite unprecedented in Sistani’s scholarship. Sistani has earlier signalled attachment to ideas similar to those of the Persian constitutional revolution of the early 1900s, when Shiite clerics fought to acquire a supervisory role which would allow them to scrutinise the Islamic legitimacy of legislation passed by parliament. This, on the other hand, signals a possible extension of jurisdiction, to the point where direct criticism of the executive becomes theoretically possible.
This does indeed seem very important– both over the long term and in the more immediate future. I assume, for example, that the religious leadership– i.e., Sistani himself– will be monitoring the performance of the government in the crucial field of negotiating the speedy withdrawal of US and allied troops, among other things? (Sistani has long been on record as favoring a speedy and complete US withdrawal.)
In his latest analysis, Visser refers back to the much longer analysis of Sistani’s role that he published in mid-March. (JWN commentary and discussion on that, here.) In the earlier analysis, Visser had written that whereas between June 2003 and November 2004 Sistani had sustained an active (and extremely influential) behind-the-scenes engagement in Iraqi politics, after November 2004 that engagement seemed to drop off sharply.
In that context, therefore, perhaps we could say today that “The breaking news from Najaf is that there is breaking news from Najaf”?
I went to Sistani’s website and looked, for example, at the portal they have there to Arabic-language press comments about him. There were already four items up there with today’s date– showing that his people are tracking current media coverage of him quite closely. Before that, the earlier items they displayed had these dates: 4 April, 9 March (two items), 2 March, 22 February (two items), 20 February, 11 December (four items), 10 December, 9 December…
Well, there are many possible explanations for their having posted press items there so sporadically between Devember 11 and April 29. (Believe me, as a blogger, I could give you plenty of explanations for sporadicity!) But it is kind of notable how extremely disengaged they seemed to have been in that period surrounding and following the December 15 elections…
In his latest analysis, Visser discussed that period of quietism and Sistani’s apparent decision to end it thus:
- There are several possible reasons for this apparent resurgence of political activity on the part of Sistani. In early 2006, he kept silent during the divisive internal Shiite struggle over who should be the United Iraqi Alliance premier candidate. This seemed to indicate that he considered the matter to be outside his proper sphere of activity; indeed, had he wished to impose a candidate of his own he could easily have done so and the fractious Shiite alliance would have avoided a very public embarrassment and a delay in the political process that played directly into the hands of anti-Shiite forces and terrorists. But now, even though Sistani has increasingly sought to keep a certain distance from the United Iraqi Alliance, matters may have reached a point where he deems the deteriorating security situation to be a direct threat to the reputation of his religious leadership.
I would add to this that perhaps, in addition, Sistani saw the deteriorating security situation as harmful to something else he seems to hold very dear, namely the national unity of Iraq?
Anyway, demobilizing the country’s numerous militias will clearly be a very tough undertaking. In the Shia community there are the Badr Brigades, the Mahdi Army, Fadila, etc… In the Sunni community there are some smaller but often much more lethal armed organizations. And then, up in Kurdistan, there are the pesh merga, whose leaders have shown no readiness whatsoever to have them dissolved… And meantime, the US plan to build up the “national army” under US trainers and US political commissars has been continuing to founder. (In this intriguing piece in today’s WaPo, Jonathan Finer writes that US soldiers in the northern Iraq town of Hawijah “have developed a deep distrust of their Iraqi counterparts following a slew of incidents that suggest the troops they are training are cooperating with their enemies”– and gives many details of such incidents.)
Clearly, then, if there is to be a demobilization of the Iraqi militias– along with, as the best strategy for this, the integration of their operationally capable members into a new, unfied Iraqi security force– then this will have to come about as a result of intra-Iraqi political reconciliation, rather than through any (quite phantasmagorical) concept of “US leadership” of the process.
Can the Iraqis do this, despite all the blood spilled, and the evident depth of the political disagreements and the distrust among them? Yes. As our friends in South Africa and elsewhere have shown us, even opposing political and military forces that have been fighting each other for a long time and with great lethality and the imposition of truly terrible suffering can reach an agreement– provided it is based on a shared concept of national unity, national citizenship, and the broader national good… And yes, they can do this largely by themselves, without requiring the input or the professed “leadership” of meddling outsiders… Especially not, if the outsiders in question have a proven track record of having stirred up internal differences and tensions; and if they still quite fail to disavow having any longterm territorial or political ambitions of their own inside the country in question!
In this very necessary political process of intra-Iraqi reconciliation and the reconstruction of all the organs of Iraqi national power, Ayatollah Sistani’s active involvement can make a big difference for the better. (Especially if he also works hard to reassure the country’s Sunni Muslims about his role.) Given the attachment the Ayatollah has already shown in the past to the ideals of Iraqi national unity and national independence, I for one am delighted that he seems to have decided to re-engage with Iraqi politics.
- Once again I want to express appreciation to Reidar Visser for his work on this. Also, since I find the handwriting used in the Arabic text of Sistani’s latest bayan very difficult to read, I’d be extremely grateful if any JWN reader could read that last portion of the bayan, where Visser says he writes about the new “monitoring” role he envisions, and post an English-language translation for us all here. Thanks! Plus if anyone could point me to a crib-sheet for the Islamic dating system used in the bayanat (but not the press postings), that would also make my life easier… ~HC
“… military forces that have been fighting each other for a long time and with great lethality and the imposition of truly terrible suffering can reach an agreement – provided it is based on a shared concept of national unity, national citizenship, and the broader national good.”
Helena,
This is a hopeful message and, I think, quite possible between the Arab Sunnis and Shiites. On the other hand, from everything I have read, the Kurds really have their own national ambitions and want to have as little to do with Iraq as possible. I don’t think the national reconciliation of the type you mention is really possible between the Kurds and rest of Iraq. I would be very happy to be wrong about this, but it seems that they are not going to be willing to relinquish their pershmerga militia.
Helena, I agree that this document is difficult to read. I have enlarged it with a photocopier and checked with some excerpts published in Iraqi newspapers and on various websites. They seem to disagree on the exact transcription in some cases! Nevertheless, the key parts are clear enough. Below is a VERY quick and probably imprecise attempt at translating the full part you referred to; please note that the exact choice of words inevitably depends on what particular interpretation is adopted for certain verbs with several different meanings.
“His Highness pointed out that the religious leadership (marja‘iyya), which never has and never will treat gently or with lenience (? dahana in form III, this has many different meanings, including “to dupe”!, but the general thrust of the sentence is clear: the interests of the people are uppermost in the minds of the clergy) anyone with regard to the interests of the great Iraqi people, will keep a watch on governmental performance and point to (sources of) controversies? (or deficiencies? this is a bit unclear and I have seen several different transcriptions in Iraqi press excerpts from the document) as necessary, and its voice will remain with the voices of the downtrodden and deprived ones among the sons of this people with no discrimination as regards their affiliation, their sect, or their ethnicity. And then the prime minister designate commented that he was determined to form a government capable of taking those responsibilities referred to (by Sistani, earlier in the document) and would strive to obtain the cooperation of all in this matter.”
As for the substance, I agree that it is positive that Sistani so vocally defends the concept of national unity. On a less optimistic note, it could prove problematic vis-à-vis the Sunnis that Sistani now seems to contemplate some sort of clerical supervision of the executive (instead of supervising the legislature only). I have added a short footnote about this in my article today; I wrote it in great haste yesterday and forgot to include it at the time!
Finally, about the dates, I think this one is relatively straightforward i.e. 28/3/1427 with “3” referring to the third Islamic month (Rabi al-Awwal), followed by the Gregorian equivalent.
Sistani clearly wants to be “a uniter, not a divider” (in W’s immortal words), at least of the Shia community. As long as public factional differences threatened to split the UIA, he had to remain quiet. Now that a conensus candidate has emerged, Sistani can resume a more public role.
Visser says that “had he wished to impose a candidate of his own he could easily have done so and the fractious Shiite alliance would have avoided a very public embarrassment and a delay in the political process.” It is undoubtedly true that Sistani could have imposed his own candidate – one time, in one election – but that kind of short-term thinking is more characteristic of Washington DC than Najaf. By publicly choosing sides, he would have sacrificed legitimacy with whatever percentage of the public supports the losing factions.
It remains to be seen how far Sistani’s interest in unity extends beyond the Shia community.
John C, I agree with your interpretation. The point I was trying to make was that Sistani apparently avoided interfering despite his power to do so, which suggests that it may have been a very deliberate decision to remain on the sidelines. It seems to be the case that he engages in politics primarily in issues where he is unlikely to loose supporters. He has followers both among SCIRI members and in the Daawa camp, and, as you say, stood to loose by choosing sides. Of course, more ideological interpretations (clerical non-interference in the “personnel details” of politics) can be plausible as well.
Apparently, what happens is that Sistani starts to support the US withdrawal. But, IMHO, this hardly qualifies for Machiavellianism as such.
I saw that Juan Cole had a reference today to the paragraphs at the end of this piece in yesterday’s Hayat that report what Adil Abdul-Mahdi said about his Thursday meeting with Sistani…
What it says is:
In Najaf, Vice-President Adil Abdul-Mahdi confirmed in a press conference that he held late Thursday, after holding a number of meetings with the higher object of religious emulation Ali al-Sistani and the Shiite leader [za’eem– maybe ‘boss’ is better?] Muqtada Sadr at the same time as the similar meetings of PM-designate Nouri al-Maliki, that the religious leadership is with ending the foreign presence in stages [tadreejian] and by supporting the Iraqi government; and he indicated that his meeting with Sistani dealt with the issue of Shiite and Sunni refugees in a number of regions, and mechanisms for dealing with it…
I find this snippet fairly intriguing. Abdul-Mahdi was, after all, widely reported to have been the Americans’ favored candidate for PM, having previously expressed great support for the US project of privatizing the Iraqi economy and having also expressed support for the US forces sticking around in Iraq for quite a while.
I personally believe that this makes him a little untrustworthy as someone who is reporting on Sistani’s alleged views on this matter.
On the other hand, of course no-one believes that the US withdrawal can be achieved overnight. Even I, in my call for the speediest possible withdrawal, recognize that the basic logistics of the thing could cause it to take some 4-5 months.
Also, interesting, though, is the fact of Abdul-Mahdi’s presence in Najaf– including, with Sistani– on Thursday. Did Sistani call him and Muqtada Sadr there together, for a kiss-and-make-up scene? Or was something other than that happening there?
Good, though, in general, if Sistani (and others?) are able to use their influence to start healing the rifts within the UIA that the Americans have been working hard to exploit and widen.
Notwithstanding the wishful thinking expressed above, Sistani clearly has much more to fear from his Najaf neighbor Sadr than from Zalmay Khalilzad.
“… Sistani clearly has much more to fear from his Najaf neighbor Sadr than from Zalmay Khalilzad.”
Interesting. Do you mean this is because the US is benevolent, or do you mean they are too weak to be a threat ?
Helena,
of course no-one believes that the US withdrawal can be achieved overnight. Even I, in my call for the speediest possible withdrawal, recognize that the basic logistics of the thing could cause it to take some 4-5 months.
US forces planning for the long haul in Iraq
Compared with most busiest Airports
Atlanta’s airport busier than Chicago’s in takeoffs and landings
>”… Sistani clearly has much more to fear from his Najaf neighbor Sadr than from Zalmay Khalilzad.”
“Interesting. Do you mean this is because the US is benevolent, or do you mean they are too weak to be a threat?”
(Posted by Christiane at April 30, 2006)
America has bent to Sistani’s will in the past…e.g., with respect to direct elections…America cannot afford to alienate him without jeopardizing its mission in Iraq.
Sadr, on the other hand, considers Sistani a serious rival for Shi’ite influence…you may recall he did not shrink from cutting down the life of another Shi’ite rival, cleric Abdul Majid al-Khoei, in 2003…for which murder charges were brought against him and his top lieutenant…granted Sistani is far more revered by Shi’ites but he nonetheless knows that he must keep a wary eye on the rabble rousing young firebrand.
Visser had written that whereas between June 2003 and November 2004 Sistani had sustained an active (and extremely influential) behind-the-scenes engagement in Iraqi politics, after November 2004 that engagement seemed to drop off sharply
Yaah, after he felt confident that the Iranians influence become more bigger and stronger through many forms either through politic parties ore miliia or other forms, those Iranians massively purchasing properties and business in the holly cites (Najaf, Karbala, Basra, Kademiaha in Baghdad) so he felt more confident now than before with the support and backing from Iranians.
Just read this report in Al-Hayat today (Arabic Text) gives you some indication what’s going on there in Basra and what Basra’s resident feeling for their city which is not far from Iranian borders.
I think Reidar needs to reconsider the facts on the ground carefully before he jumped to the conclusions about the south in the domination of Iran influence now and taking in account not stating this the well of Southern Iraqis, because simply those who trying to split and dominated the area for its richness of oil and other resources are mostly Iranians and recently Kuwaitis whom they rushed also to purchasing farms along the Kuwaitis/Iraqi border paying high prices for those farmers or by other means.
يتعامل أهالي محافظة البصرة (500 كلم جنوب بغداد) بحذر مع التحركات الايرانية، خصوصاً بعد تأكد أنباء عن قرب افتتاح طهران قنصلية في المدينة، وأجواء التصعيد بين طهران وواشنطن، وتداول أخبار عن حشود أميركية لمواجهة النفوذ الايراني.
Salah, I read the al-Hayat piece. But when you have those concerns, don’t you find it helpful that Sistani warns foreign states against interfering in Iraq?
وذكر سماحته ان من الضروري اقامة افضل العلاقات واوثقها مع دول الجوار كافة على
اساس الاحترام المتبادل وعدم التدخل في الشؤون الداخلية والتعاون في مختلف المجالات بما يخدم مصالح شعوب المنطقة جميعا
Also, is there really any evidence for links between the dominant party of Basra (Fadila) and Iran? I haven’t seen anything of the sort so far.
Back in the Days of ‘Mission Accomplished’
Reidar
don’t you find it helpful that Sistani warns foreign states against interfering in Iraq?
The most important thing not by STATING, it’s by ACTING and WORKING in good will for united Iraq. As many statements from Bush and his administration about Iraq for three years tell now, what we got Reidar? A chaos, Isn’t? Tell the difference if you see it between the two cases.
I am Iraqi and I know very well these Iranian clerics what they did from 1960 till now there is no doubt with most Iraqi these clerics are working towered first their personal interest, secondly towards Iran “Persians” interest in the region.
Talking about sistani with your analysis about his recent politics rule, I can say as I can see with what I saw in the past of the behaviours of many of clerics like sistani they are like SNAILS, when they fell there is a danger they retreated back to their shell to protect themselves concentrated on religious rule with minimum supporters like sistani under Hussein’s time, but when they feel safe they will get out and interferes the police process to be influential and drags things for their will.
Reidar, I think you need to read the Iranian/Persians penetration in the Gulf countries specially Bahrain and how they managed to get with invading the three Arab Islands (Tomb the Small, Tomb the Great and Abu Mussa).
I pick your attention for Shah of Iran requested UN body to count the population of those Islands and see how many Iranians are Lived/Borne there, at a time the Bahraini officials refused any process like that, why? Its clear its long Persian process on those three Islands as we hear these day in Iraq “social building”
Salah do you not leave your house. you are ALWAYS here, spreading your baathi fantasies.
The last commenter originally posted two comments. They both went ways outside the boundaries I have on this blog regarding the courtesy of the discourse.
This is to notify that commenter that if you put expressions of violence and hatred like “May you burn in hell salah” up here again, then you will be permanently banned.
ok sorry to break the rules.
still, salah is a disgusting person. He is obsessed with his pan-arabism and always talks about how bad the persians are. does he not consider them to be muslims too?
All humans are equal and all muslims are equal. His Saddamist ideology will be crushed in Iraq.
THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES
Friend “utufgh”, hi. I too have been disturbed by the breadth and accusatory nature of a number of the comments Salah has made here regarding “the Iranians/Persians”– and the fact that he often implies that this category includes all Iraqi Shiites, too. I have expressed my (at times strong) disquiet about some of his accusations to him, publicly here and also via email.
However, if we’re participating in a courteous, calm, and problem-solving discussion– which I hope we can do here– then I think it’s distinctly unhelpful to make any kind of a global judgment about another participant’s inner nature (“salah is a disgusting person”), but far better to focus on the particular thing he does or says with which you strongly disagree (“always talks about how bad the persians are”)– and then make your counter-argument.
Which you do, and which I agree wholeheartedly with: “All humans are equal and all muslims are equal.” Thanks for restating that so clearly.
It is meanwhile clear to me that there is a lot of distrust and fear brewing nowadays between Sunnis and Shias around the Gulf region. I really hope we can all– yes, including you Salah!– strive to calm those fears rather than exacerbate them. One million people (nearly all Muslim people) killed, and two (mainly Muslim) nations impacted very badly by the war that followed Saddam’s aggressive invasion of Iran in 1980: that record should surely remind everyone today of the dangers of escalatory actions, including the use of one-sidedly acusatory rhetoric.
Who benefitted by that war? (Clue: it wasn’t the Iraqis, or the Arabs, or the Iranians… ) And who is out there busy stirring up distrust and divisionism today??
still, salah is a disgusting person. He is obsessed with his pan-arabism and always talks about how bad the persians are. does he not consider them to be muslims too?
Look, I don’t hate Iranians at all, but I hate their acts in IRAQ and other Arab/Muslim countries.
What I see and what I lived through in Iraq/Babylon for most of my life those “Rubbish” brought by Iranians / Persian Mullahs to Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan its totally and completely not related to Islamic faith in any means, here I talking about Ashoor (عاشوراء ) cutting heads by knives, use the chains to hits the backs all sorts of these rubbish brought and promoted by those Iranians Mullah, sitting inside Iraq as Islamic/ Shiites leaders which totally wrong and misleading and not related to our Islamic faith.
If you are Muslim I encourage you to read the Quran and the Sunah of Our Prophets Mohammad (ص ) and leave what those Mullah with what they believe
All humans are equal and all muslims are equal. His Saddamist ideology will be crushed in Iraq.
You are right we all humans but we had the devil between us ….
Helena,
Thanks for your points I will take them in account in the future.
I just to say to me and to most of my Iraqi friends and the majority of Iraqi which I lived with, they hate the interferences causae by Iranians Mullah in Iraq. It’s not Shiites/ Sunni things at all Helena and I think you should know this
جلال الطالباني: سنقضي على الإرهاب هذه السنة
إذا خرج الأميركيون تدخّل الإيرانيون وانفجرت الحرب الأهلية
Dose he hate the Iranians also?
حسن العلوي، وهو المثقف العارف بشخصية العراق التاريخية والاجتماعية، وهو المتصالح مع انتمائه الوطني، ومجموعته الاجتماعية / الثقافية الاصغر (طائفته الشيعية)، كان يتحدث في حواره المتلفز مع «المستقلة» عن كتابه الذي سيصدره عن الخليفة عمر بن الخطاب، مسلطا الضوء فيه على طبيعة الجهود السياسية المشتركة بين الامام علي والخليفة عمر في بناء الدولة، بلغة ايجابية عن عمر، مبديا غضبه الشديد من الثقافة الشيعية «الدخيلة» على الشيعة، والتي تقوم على الادب «المجلسي» نسبة لباقر المجلسي، أحد رموز التشيع «الصفوي» القديم الذي اشاع ثقافة الشتم والسب والتكفير للسنة ورموز السنة أمثال عمر بن الخطاب .
i apologise profusely Helena, you have truly made me ashamed of myself. Its just i get so angry when people call Iraqi shia persians or iranians, when they are as loyal as anyone else to their country. The same goes for all shia in the middle east. That tyrant Mubarak was guilty of the same thing.
Look salah, i completely agree with what you say about what SOME shia do during Ashura. it is wrong when they cut their heads and hit themselves with chains. In an Islamic Sense it is Haram.
BUT, and this is important, they dont hurt anyone else when they do this. Freedom means the freedom to do what you want as long as it has no negative impacts on anyone else.
What do you care about what some one does to himself? Let Allah (swt) do the judging. The Quran sanctions the freedom of religion, and orders that there be no compulsion in religion. If some people are deviant, then God will Judge them on the Judgement Day, not you or me.
Freedom of religion is something i hope will take root in Iraq as our country has a healthy mix of religions. As a muslim shia, i believe in freedom for all, and i wouldnt want to see the chaldeans oppressed for example.
let us learn from each other, rather than suspicions of each other.
Wa Alaikum a sallam.
Friend utufgh,
Welcome abroad here, my apology if in any way I offended you or other brothers.
As I said I lived and saw closely our society and our people they are so generous with all comers from outside Iraq and they make them feel home but sadly some of them they work for their interests or to the interest to some one not Iraq as a country and they devalue our home country, which make us suffer more and more with troubles things.
Please listen read carefully what I write now I don’t to offended more any one but this my view based on my living with same environment from 1950 till now and we discussed these issues many time and many time when we are in secondary school, high school, university and after that.
Worked with Iraqi Military force before the war 1980 and during the war for few years, I met many many different friends “solders” I liked them I respected them I wish them all the best I feel sad for them , I missed them I Worked and met Kurds from North, Shiites from south , Sunni Christians (Assyrians, Arminians, and other), Saba’ah, Jews (this in the university) all of them I highly admire them I miss them and we all share same values for one Iraq and united.
What’s sadden me from that time till now if you read closely the Islamic History these acts what you ” believe ” as freedom for some who doing this either by believe in or unknowingly just doing it for some reason its not right and its reflect the worse act human can acts, if you talking about the sadness of the killing of Al Hussein Bin Ali ( رضية الله عنه ) I think his scarifies for the Islamic faith should give us a good example of loving the people and help them and to be one hand on our enemies. and let take his story as a light in our life to apply the valued Islamic faith that brings our Islamic nations from the darkness we living in and there is no excuse or any cause why shouldn’t be like the rest of the world in the matter of human freedom and respecting others and build our society to be one of the friendly societies in the world like the rest, not what we seeing now this nation brought by some terrorist and dark ages leaders who use the nicknames as they over the rest of us which never ever being in Islamic Faith, I might use the Khalifa Omer Bin Al-khtab ( رضية الله عنه)speech to his nation in Mecca ” If any one see in me wrong come forward and corrected by your swords” what a speech was by Omar Bin Al-Khatab (رضية الله عنه, how the freedom of speech our grand grand Islamic nation had….
Big thanks to you both for having been so responsive to what I said, and for trying now to use your words here to build bridges rather than to wound or attack or create divisions.
Words can be so powerful. For good or for bad.
I know it’s not always to be moderate and respectful in what we say– especially when a person feels deeply pained by the words or other actions of other people. And we know that there is a huge amount of really terrible, ongoing suffering for all Iraqis today.
(I feel really, really bad that our US government has contributed so much to this suffering. I and many other US citizens would sincerely like to do whatever we can to help repair the damage our government has caused.)
Anyway, thanks to both of you for participating here.
Salam brother Salah. I too am very sorry if i offended you in anyway.
Thank you helena for hosting such a great site, it really is, along with Juan Cole, the most informtative site online
regards
utugfh, no worries, the important thing we need to work for our country and our nation for better life as we deserves like other of world with all our richness and our civilization that gave the world the first Code of Law
“The first constitution was written by Hammurabi in Samaria, modern-day Iraq” we should very prod of this utugfh and we should complete to be in the front with other nations.
Also our Prophet Mohammad (ص) he is the first leader introduce
“Prophet Mohammed who established the first known constitution in the world — I’m referring to the constitution he wrote for the city of Medina –and that his life and the principles outlined in his constitution, such as the championing of the welfare of women, children and the poor, living as an equal among his people, dissolving disputes between the warring clans in Arabia, giving any man or woman in parliament the right to vote and guaranteeing respect for all religions, ironically parallel those principles that we hold most precious in our own Constitution. I’m wondering how might your recently formed Iraq Study Group under the U.S. Institute for Peace explore these striking similarities to forge a new relationship with Iraqis and educate Americans about the democratic principles inherent in Islam?”
So why we all miss this? Why we should not be in the front of the rest of other nations working for the good of all humans as our religion tell us and instructed us?
Helena,
many thanks to let us using your domain to interchange and talk here, and many thanks for your words.
But I have things a bout what you said about me before I am not agree with you, but lets move on and many thanks
Thanks to both of you for sticking around here and reaching out to each other.
I really do think that new knowledge and understanding is created when people who disagree can discuss their disagreements calmly and in a respectful way…
Salah, I just got time to go look at that slide show you linked to. That was really interesting. Thanks for putting in the link. (We agree on many things and disagree on some… Same with most people, actually– even, as you know, between me and Juan Cole. But let’s keep respecting and being friendly to each other, and let’s keep talking and learning.)
KarlikSuka4