On Thursday, the WaPo published the following, completely craven “Correction”:
- — A June 26 A-section article referred to Gilo as a Jewish settlement. It is a Jewish neighborhood built on land captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War and annexed to Israel as part of Jerusalem’s expanded municipal boundaries. The United Nations has not acknowledged the annexation.
So the WaPo quite simply endorses whatever Israel says is the case??
It is not just the UN that has failed to “acknowledge” the annexation/Anschluss of East Jerusalem to Israel. The United States has never either “acknowledged” or– more to the point– supported the view that east Jerusalem is part of Israel, either. And neither have just about all the other countries of the world (except, um, Micronesia… )
The International Court Of Justice, when it issued its 2004 ruling on Israel’s Apartheid Barrier, came out unequivocally against the idea that Israel could unilaterally annex any part of the land occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem.
So why does the WaPo endorse Israel’s Anschluss of East Jerusalem (and Gilo)? What kind of back-stage campaign was waged between June 26 and july 16 to “persuade” the ailing newsrag to do this?
This plunge in standards is all on a par with publisher/heiress Katharine Weymouth’s shameless pimping of her newsroom.
But still, we should all send the paper letters of strong protest at this latest debacle.
Gee Helena, I see that you’ve gone back to using German of late. Anschluss. Israel Uber Alles. How mean and hateful!
Just a few comments on this worthless post of yours. First, a couple of correction. Gilo is a “neigbhorhood” not a “settlement”. That doesn’t make it any less on occupied territory that Israel has annexed, which is all that the Washington Post is saying. Neighborhood (as I’m sure was pointed out to them) is a more accurate descriptive term. Second, Gilo is not in East Jerusalem. If you look at a map, Gilo is clearly due south of the most western portion of the city.
Finally, I found your description of Katheren Weymouth’s “shameless pimping” hilarious. According to the Politico article Weymouth, for a fee, would give lobbyists:
off-the-record access to “those powerful few” — Obama administration officials, members of Congress, and even the paper’s own reporters and editors.
So Helena, according analogy to your Ms. Weymouth is the Madame, her the association lobbyists are the “Johns”, and the Obama administration officials are….? LOL!
Hateful or shameful Confession?
“We killed them (Germans?) out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own…” —Ari Shavat. Reproduced in the New York Times, May 27th, 1999
You know what Omop, you go out trawling the Internet for quotes and then figure that this is scholarly proof of Zionist wrong doing. Well it’s not particularly “scholarly” and it certainly isn’t “proof”.
I searched the New York Times for the entire year of 1999, and I couldn’t find one single reference to the quote that you cited above as “reproduced” (whatever that means) in that newspaper. Further, I think that whatever site you picked this quote up from, misspelled the author’s name, because that’s Ari Shavit who writes for Ha’aretz.
But even if this, and all your other bogus quotes, were authentic, what does it prove in isolation and pulled out of context?
So, for example, what does the fact that the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husayni, said to Lord Passfield: “Do you mean that we are below the Negroes of Africa?” (Khalidi, The Iron Cage, p.41). Does that prove, prima facie, that the Mufti viewed black Africans as inferior to Arabs?
thers evidence israel has an army of bloggers etc to storm the media and pressure them to do what zionists want.Of course the MSM is cowardly…it would be good to document that and make it public…
Oh come on Brian! Do you really think that Israel’s foreign ministry with a reported budget of $150,000 could sway media opinion. You know, taken together with your “truther” crap, I think that you’re really a wingnut.
JES, I thin I have an idea where omop is digging up these “incriminating” quotations:
http://www.puppstheories.com/quotes.htm
There you have it – when omop isn’t fretting about the zionist conspiracy, its chemtrails, UFOs and the illuminati. Hysterical.
You know what JES you are full of it.
Ari Shavit. “How Easily We Killed Them.” New York Times, May 27, 1996. (Originally published in Hebrew in Ha’aretz.) (Scathing critique of the Israeli bombing of Qana refugee camp in Operation Grapes of Wrath. Reflects on how Israel’s culture made it easy to dehumanize and kill its enemies.) And quoted in a May 27, 1999.
I would provide the link but then I would be adding to your bogus education.
what does it prove in isolation and pulled out of context?
So JES, you’d like to see things in context ? Why are you so sure that the broader context will make angels out of the Israelians government and army ? For me the broader context is the Lebanon war and the ultimate shoving of those terrific bombs which are still exploding now and costing the life of children playing around their house, or of the paysant who want to work in his field. For me, the broader context is the Gaza war, where so many civilians were killed and wounded, where so many houses were downed, that even Ban Kimoon the proUS secretary of the UN could help to tell he was scandalized, particularly by the bombing of a UN school which was perfectly marked so. The broader context, is the Gaza siege, where no building material is allowed to repair the destruction, where everything is lacking : water is polluted, medicines are lacking and food is lacking. Is that the broader context you want us to take into account.
Please, by now, it’s clear for everybody that the Israelians are the oppressors and that they are no more the victimes they were during the WWII and nazism and that you are so keen to brandish in order to justify what is unjustified. Helena is trying to understand why this is possible, why it is possible that cute young boys and women can wage so much injustice to another, apparently forgetting what it means to be treated like animals. Many small events, don’t prove anything when they are taken in isolation, but they have a signification when seen together.
It is important to point to the racists behavior which allows the larger crime against humanity.
It’s not because the Jews have been victimes in the past that they can’t become the oppressors. It’s not because they were once the victimes, that they have earned a right to treat the others as badly.
Go ahead. Add to my “bugus education”. You missed my point entirely. I have no doubt that Ari Shavit wrote those words. I also have no doubt that you picked them up from trawling hate sites where they “reproduced” a misspelling of Shavit’s name. But all that is beside the point. You truly believe that producing a quote, no matter how bogus, is somehow scholarly and that it proves something. Well, here’s a question for you: What does it prove?
Boy, between you, Brian, Carroll, Steve, this site has really gone down hill!
I think you’re on to something, Vadim. It’s either from there, or from Rense.com or from Radio Islam, or from another from among the scores of hate sites that make up the Pallywood Handbook and that people lke omop frequent.
Christiane, I’ve really had it with your “past victim” theory. Zionists – at least mainstream Zionists – have no interest in being perceived as victims, and never had any interest in being perceived as such.
The one place where you are spot on (and it’s really a relief to see) is when you say that:
Many small events, don’t prove anything when they are taken in isolation, but they have a signification when seen together.
You’re absolutely correct here. Now go out and think about that for a while before you come back with a response. Take your statement in the context of my response to omop. Read my comment carefully.
I think everyone is missing the point of the post. The WAPO has clearly abandoned all journalistic standards in it kowtowing to the Israel Lobby. This is a serious matter when it concerns one of the two or so papers of record of the US. People who read this article could get the mistaken impression that there is simply a dispute with a biased UN about the status of the settlements in the occupied territories. The daily onslaught of such disinformation by the WAPO clearly contributes to widespread confusion and lack of understanding of the true issues in the US.
“People who read this article could get the mistaken impression that there is simply a dispute with a biased UN about the status of the settlements in the occupied territories. The daily onslaught of such disinformation by the WAPO clearly contributes to widespread confusion and lack of understanding of the true issues in the US.”
That is exactly the idea, of course.
No Jack. That’s not the point. The Washington Post correction had to do with the term “settlement” as opposed to “neighborhood”. The latter being a more accurate description considering its population of 40,000 and its direct connection to the Western part of the city (at the Pat-Gilo junction).
Your (and Helena’s) mistake is to confuse journalism with editorialism – or in the worst case, with giving an opinion on international law. The Washington Post has returned to journalistic standards!
I think everyone is missing the point of the post. The WAPO has clearly abandoned all journalistic standards in it kowtowing to the Israel Lobby.
Believe me Jack, we haven’t missed the millionth iteration of this idea. But why is this interesting? Suppose you think you’ve proven for the umpteenth time that the WaPo is staffed by Zionist shills: how does it inform or otherwise change your view of the conflict in any way? I’m sure you were convinced before this post that the WaPo was in the tank for the Vast Zionist Conspiracy, yes? I don’t, and this doesn’t change my opinion either. It goes right past me (and Israelis like JES and most of the WaPo audience) straight to you.
The only people for whom this stuff will resonate are tuned to that channel already, people like omop who troll for soundbites to stoke the rage that keeps them alive. non-angry non-ideologues tune it out, because it doesn’t speak to the fundamental causes of (ie solutions to) the conflict.
vadim and JES might know for sure if AS is still in a coma?
“I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.” —Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
What is interesting, at a time when the institution of the Daily Newspaper is at risk of disappearing, is that the Post is so easily intimidated.
It used to take an awful lot to get a ‘correction’ from a major newspaper. At the very least there had to be some evidence that the paper had a made a mistake.
And that certainly wasn’t the case here: JES’s rather silly attempts to invest the realtor’s term “neighbourhood’ with a precise meaning notwithstanding.
In point of fact the “settlement’ in question is exactly the opposite of a neighbourhood, most of its inhabitants not being neighbours but ‘outlanders’, ‘far bors’, immigrants. Their role is to crowd out and, literally, alienate the neighbouring Palestinians.
But, as I say, the word is simply used in this context as a real estate brommide: it is designed to convey a sense of normality and social evolution, economic growth and expanded community, to that American audience whose somnambulant approval is crucial to the success of a project which is, actually revolutionary, radical, an uprooting of community and a demolition of settled society.
Neighbourhood: such a Norman Rockwell sort of a word. And yet surrounded by high fences, its streets patrolled by armed guards, its residents vetted for religious and ‘ethnic’ purity, its traffic restricted to non-natives, its foundations poured on the ruins of real neighbourhoods whose inhabitants have been stripped of their possessions and driven away to distant camps. Which are kept on short rations, deprived of the most basic services, such as hospitals, sewage and water treatment and, whenever electoral considerations either in Israel or the United States indicate an advantage in doing so, attacked unmercifully, marched over and punished for being ill armed and friendless.
Helena is right to note the juxtaposition between the revelations of the Post’s prostitution and this evidence that it is always happy to lay down and do what its customers want.
“But even if this, and all your other bogus quotes, were authentic, what does it prove in isolation and pulled out of context?”
That’s hilarious, coming from the master.
“Boy, between you, Brian, Carroll, Steve, this site has really gone down hill!”
Glad you think that way JES. Perhaps some banning is in order??
And, given that you link from your own (?) site to LGF (as soul mates perhaps?) is pretty rich, don’t you think?
You and Vadim spend an inordinate amount of time commenting here (congrats Helena) but I haven’t seen anything that rises above the “But see, we’re not as bad as them” kind of stuff. You’re disappointing. I learn nothing from you except how deeply entrenched and intractable you are. Tell me: do you believe that you represent a voice of reason?
t I haven’t seen anything that rises above the “But see, we’re not as bad as them” kind of stuff
That’s interesting, because I haven’t seen much from you that rises above the “Israelis are inhuman monsters who kill Palestinians for fun” sort of stuff. Now we’re on the “Zionists control the media and isnt’ it awful” sort of stuff — do you have something fresh to add? By fresh I don’t mean apocryphal soundbites from Rense. Actually I’d be interested to learn from a “neutral observer” like you how Helena’s umpteenth post about The Dread Zionist Lobby advances the cause of peace as opposed to stoking the prejudices of her readership.
I think you may have missed the point of the post again Vadim – perhaps intentionally??
I actually don’t think or believe that a “Zionist Lobby” is at work here. Just the Israeli government and I think that’s the point Helena is making.
Will pointing that out advance the cause of peace? Well, it’s certainly a little bit of information I may otherwise have missed and which has a small amount of value in the way I perhaps consider other information I may receive from elsewhere.
Correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to think the current status of Israel and the Palestinians is preferable to a fully functioning, self realizing state for the Palestinians. This is the message that you and JES are sending me with virtually every post you make here. Hence my tongue-in-cheek remark the other day about you being a Hamas Psy-Ops campaign.
Why don’t you try to convince me and the other readers of JWN that you really do seek a peaceful, dignified and sustainable solution to a problem that has destroyed the lives of so many for more than 60 years. Let’s hear what you’ve got in that head of yours.
Whether still in a coma or not Ariel Sharon’s quote below still ranks as the “nec plus ultra” of all Israelis.
“”Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours . . . Everything we don’t grab will go to them.”
Ariel Sharon , then Israeli Foreign Minister, Agence France Presse, 15 Nov 1998 .
Comment from… vadim, at June 14, 2007 08:31 PM:
“As an Episcopalian, Jewish religious traditions are alien to me.”
Comment from… JES, at September 14, 2006 06:09 AM:
“…I also think that to jump to the conclusion that these munitions [cluster bombs] were used [in Lebanon] because of the high rate of unexploded bomblets, as some people here have done, is unfounded.”
JES continues: “…Rappaport’s article is just plain bad journalism.”
No further comment necessary.
Correction. Not inspired by anyone’s lobby, I may add.
Sorry Vadim, hadn’t read the header (I rarely read headlines and when I do it’s only to check whether they’re appropriate to the body).
Not that it makes a great deal of difference. It says something about the situation and its history when there’s a squabble over whether it’s called a settlement or a neighborhood, don’t you think?
Do you think this is really important enough for a busy newspaper to print a correction – weeks later? Lobby or not, somebody is poring over the details and asking for their petty findings to be addressed. I doubt it’s anyone on said very busy paper, so who might it be?
Was it you? JES perhaps?
There’s more:
Comment from… JES, at September 14, 2006 06:09 AM:
“…then the assertions [Rappaport] makes about phosphorous munitions are simply speculation. Rappaport begins with the statement that the use of phosphorous is “widely forbidden by international law”. This is simply not true, and he later provides statements attributed to the ICRC that contradict this claim, viz. that their use against personnel is illegal. But he provides absolutely no evidence at all that these munitions were used in this manner.”
It seems JES and Vadim have never heard of CAMERA and similar organizations, and are unaware of their various activities in regard to the American media.
Correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to think the current status of Israel and the Palestinians is preferable to a fully functioning, self realizing state for the Palestinians…. This is the message that you and JES are sending me with virtually every post you make here.
actually Steve none of my posts here have addressed you, and I’m not consciously sending you any telepathic messages. As it happens your assumption is very wrong, but you should probably ask yourself why you felt comfortable making it in the first place
I actually don’t think or believe that a “Zionist Lobby” is at work here. Just the Israeli government and I think that’s the point Helena is making..
Here I think you’re making more strange assumptions. “pro-Israel lobby” is in the headline of this post. K. Weymouth isn’t in the Israeli government, nor is any Israeli figure mentioned in any way. Just the murky suggestion of a “back stage campaign” involving “the pro-Israel lobby” which Helena has complained about in 58 independent posts.
No further comment necessary.
I think you lost all of us with that one divyang. How can I help you?
Lobby or not, somebody is poring over the details and asking for their petty findings to be addressed.
someone is also poring over the corrections page and posting about this same extremely petty detail on her blog. Is this person part of an evil Lobby or just someone with a strong opinion? Do you think this is really important enough for a busy blog to not only complain about said weeks-later barely noticed correction, but also to accuse its publisher/heiress [sic] of cravenly pimping her worthless rag to the forces of darkness on this fact alone?
All things considered, this strikes me as profoundly unserious topic, and definitely not one likely to encourage mutual understanding and respect. But hey, its her dime.
Whats this about a zionist lobby in the only Democracy and the only US “ally” in the Middle East?
Israel refuses U.S. demand of halting East Jerusalem project
http://www.chinaview.cn 2009-07-19 19:29:32.
JERUSALEM, July 19 (Xinhua) — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected on Sunday a U.S. call to stop an East Jerusalem construction project, saying Israel’s sovereignty over Jerusalem is “indisputable.”
“Our sovereignty in Jerusalem is indisputable,” said Netanyahu at the weekly cabinet meeting, “We can’t agree to such a demand in East Jerusalem.”
The U.S. State Department summoned Israeli Ambassador in Washington Michael Oren over the weekend, and told him that the housing units building project in East Jerusalem should be halted, reported both Israel Radio and Army Radio.
The project was developed by American millionaire Irving Moskowitz, an influential supporter of Israeli settlement in East Jerusalem, the Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported.
Moskowitz bought a hotel in East Jerusalem in 1985 and planed to build housing units in the hotel’s place, near Israeli government buildings, including several ministries and the national police headquarters.
The dispute on the construction project in East Jerusalem is the latest hint of the disagreement between Israel and the United States over the Israeli settlements issue.
Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, captured by Israel in 1967 and later annexed, are considered by international community as Israeli settlements and an obstacle to Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
The Obama administration called the Israeli government to freeze all its settlement activities, but Netanyahu government rejected the demand.
It is reported that nearly 300,000 Israelis live in the West Bank settlements, along with 180,000 Israelis in Jewish neighborhoods of East Jerusalem. The Palestinians demand the return of both areas, as parts of the future Palestinian state.
“Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” AS.
“actually Steve none of my posts here have addressed you, and I’m not consciously sending you any telepathic messages. As it happens your assumption is very wrong, but you should probably ask yourself why you felt comfortable making it in the first place”
You’re posting on a public forum Vadim. Of course your comments are addressed to me; as they’re equally addressed to others who come here. No assumption necessary really.
See my correction – before being lobbied – on the headline, replete with apology.
So, Vadim, are you denying the existence of an Israel Lobby in the United States?
“Do you think this is really important enough for a busy blog to not only complain about said weeks-later barely noticed correction, but also to accuse its publisher/heiress [sic] of cravenly pimping her worthless rag to the forces of darkness on this fact alone?”
Helena clearly believes it important to comment on and somebody, somewhere, clearly thought it worth pushing for said unimportant, barely noticed “correction”.
You may not have noticed this Vadim but the settlements issue in Israel has been given the green light by the current administration. As I said in another post, this is KSG leadership 101 (think LBJ and the civil rights movement as an example) and so the rights and wrongs of said settlements is very much on the agenda.
As for the pimping publisher item: well, I suggest you check out the insider commentary on journalistic sites to get a sense of how that’s been regarded inside the industry.
So JES, can you explain again how exactly, according to the definitions of international law, the Nazis’ unilateral and illegal annexation (Anschluss) of Austria differed from Israel’s unilateral ad illegal annexation (Anschluss) of East Jerusalem?
I have to agree here with JES that “Anschluss” is a very hurtful and inappropriate term. It suggests the Palestinians are as willing to be be adsorbed into some kind of “Greater Israel” like the Austrians were to be absorbed into the “Greater Germany” way back when. History often repeats itself but not in this case.
Now as for the “pimping” quote being as JES then outrageously claimed something about “prostitution for Obama officials”, ostensibly in an attempt at sarcasm. Lets look at the relevant part of Helena’s actual link in detail:
“— Obama administration officials, members of Congress, and even the paper’s own reporters and editors.
The astonishing offer was detailed in a flier circulated Wednesday to a health care lobbyist, who provided it to a reporter because the lobbyist said he felt it was a conflict for the paper to charge for access to, as the flier says, its “health care reporting and editorial staff.”
So no it is of course “pimp my office” as in “pimp my ride” and the thrust of the story -the range of players the office is being pimped for- and who took offense at what-becomes clearer from reading it all instead of JES’s ‘reliably’ misleading little snip.
Steve noted above none of this will stop the rights and wrongs of the settlements being on the US political agenda.
As for Jewish Israelis with a conscience, peace movement or no peace movement,and despite the dearth of them commenting here there are still many-and here’s one.
JES writes
“The Washington Post correction had to do with the term “settlement” as opposed to “neighborhood.” The latter being a more accurate description considering its population of 40,000 and its direct connection to the Western part of the city …”
By issuing this correction the WAPO gives the distinct, but misleading, impression that Gilo is not a settlement. Specifically, it implies that it is inappropriate to apply the term settlement to Gilo because it lies within Jerusalem’s expanded boundaries.
I think it’s worth noting that UN Security Council resolution 452 of 1979 unambigously refers to ‘settlements’ in Jerusalem. Since Israel’s annexation of east Jerusalem is not recognized internationally, it’s difficult to see how their status as settlements could have changed?
From USCR 452:
The Security Council,
Taking note of the report and recommendations of the Security Council Commission established under resolution 446 (1979) to examine the situation relating to settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem,
…
Deeply concerned by the practices of the Israeli authorities in implementing that settlements policy in the occupied Arab territories, including Jerusalem, …
…
Calls upon the Government and people of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem;
In related news today, Netanyahu boasts of defying the world by building settlements in East Jerusalem, all while insisting they not be considered settlements:
“During my previous tenure I built thousands of housing units in the [East] Jerusalem neighborhood of Har Homa, and I went against the world.”
See: U.S. demand for East Jerusalem building freeze ‘surprised’ Netanyahu
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101192.html
Congratulations divyang! You’ve made my point for me!
First, you take a parenthetical statement out of context – that Rappaport based his entire reporting on what a single junior officer told him. You then excised the few, mauled words from what I wrote after which was to the effect that these charges, as well as those that Hezballah used 302mm rockets loaded with ball bearings, should be investigated.
Was Rappaport practicing bad journalism? Well, why don’t you decide.
Helena, in answer to your question, I wasn’t referring to the meaning, which was pretty clear, I believe, from my post. Rather, I was referring to your use of German terms clearly associated with the Nazis, which is just plain mean and hurtful. I would not have had the same reaction had you used the term “illegal annexation” (in fact I might have agreed), which came on the heals of your rather more suggestive “Israel Uber Alles”.
Again, I think that when it comes to Israel and Israelis that you are simply incapable of any empathy. But that’s a personal demon you’re going to have to work out for yourself.
Steve the rights and wrongs of said settlements have nothing to do with the Washington post’s editorial policy or what the gossip boards say about its publisher. You assumption was that I supported the status quo in Israel, a falsehood. I accept your retraction and apology. sorry that you seem hell bent on continuing this conversation about the WaPo, the Lobby and other advocacy-related (peripheral, meta-) issues.
I disagree with your idea that a “green light” has been given to settlements by anyone in the US administration but doubt I’m going to convince you otherwise. Enjoy your day and your new friends here. I’m sure you have lots to talk about with them but we’re done.
“…the term “settlement” as opposed to “neighborhood.” The latter being a more accurate description…”
Not by any definition I have ever seen. In fact, settlement isn’t really accurate either. Colony is closer, but even that does not really capture it.
And, given that you link from your own (?) site to LGF (as soul mates perhaps?) is pretty rich, don’t you think?
Not any more so than the fact that I link to Bitter Lemons! Bye now.
LOOOOOOOOL! Jes thinks that linking to Bitter Lemons now and then cancels out linking to LGF – good one! Do you also link to Jihad Watch, JES?
JES said to Helena :
Again, I think that when it comes to Israel and Israelis that you are simply incapable of any empathy. But that’s a personal demon you’re going to have to work out for yourself.
Listen JES, it’s very hard to have empathy for oppressors and occupiers,
That said, I’ve heard Netanyahu yesterday in a TV footage and was shocked by the way he pretended that they had a right to live everywhere they wanted in Jerusalem, because it was a Jewish holy place. He is clearly defying the Obama’s administration and the world authority of the UN. Well, I wonder what he is expecting from all this ? Is he trying to see where Obama will put limits ? It’s quite incredible. I think that if Obama doesn’t want to loose all credibility with the Arab and other Muslim countries, he has to react and cut military help to Israel..
Listen JES, it’s very hard to have empathy for oppressors and occupiers…
Hey Christiane, I find it very difficult to have empathy for people who kidnap soldiers and hold them for ransom, fire rockets indiscriminately on innocent civilians, and commit fratricide. But I try anyway.
I’ve heard Netanyahu yesterday in a TV footage and was shocked by the way he pretended that they had a right to live everywhere they wanted in Jerusalem, because it was a Jewish holy place.
Christiane, you appear to have your own demons working on your hearing. Here’s what Netanyahu actually said yesterday (and I heard it myself and can verify the translation):
“United Jerusalem is the capital of the Jewish people in the State of Israel, and our sovereignty over the city is not subject to appeal. Our policy is that Jerusalem residents can purchase apartments anywhere in the city. This has been the policy of all Israeli governments. There is no ban on Arabs buying apartments in the west of the city, and there is no ban on Jews building or buying in the city’s east. This is the policy of an open city.
“I can imagine what would happen if someone proposed that Jews could not live or buy in certain neighborhoods of London, New York, Paris or Rome. A huge international outcry would surely ensue. It is even more impossible to agree to such an edict in East Jerusalem.”
He said nothing about Jews having the right because Jerusalem is a holy city; He said that Jews have the same right to live anywhere in Jerusalem as they do to live in any major city or neighborhood in the world. I think that’s pretty clear.
I think that if Obama doesn’t want to loose all credibility with the Arab and other Muslim countries, he has to react and cut military help to Israel..
If Obama doesn’t want to lose all credibility with Americans he has to react and cut military help to Israel..
Or perhaps Americans will continue to believe in Obama and his “change” even after he or the Israelis have nuked Teheran, he’s crashed the dollar, and Israel has stolen the last square centimeter of Palestine. That’s the tone around these parts.
Somebody voted for him to begin with, he was elected by a landslide. It looks as though Americans don’t care who is President or how much damage he does, even to themselves, as long as they can turn on their TVs or tun to their favorite blog and be reassured that “his heart’s in the right place”, or some equally absurd line.
First, with all due respect, 53% of the popular vote is hardly a landslide. A landslide would be more like Johnson’s 61% of the popular vote or Reagan’s 51% to Carter’s 41%.
Secondly, there’s nothing unusual about a one-term president. Johnson was enough of a politician to figure that his inability to end the war in Vietnam doomed him to defeat and had the good sense to resign. Carter, after ruining the economy and making a laughing stock out of the US in the world following the Russian invasion of Afghanistan (to which his response was a boycott of the Olympics – wow!) and the hostage crisis during which he flip-flopped and assigned a variety of “good ol’ boys” from Plains to negotiate, just didn’t have the political acumin to understand that the American people would turn him out of office by a 10 percentage point margin.
Mark my words, Obama is leading the US into a double-dip recession with stagflation that should hit sometime between mid-term and the 2012 election. North Korea is going to continue to flex its muscles, and there’s a good chance that Iran will get the bomb and threaten the US oil supply and that of the entire free world thanks to his pandering to the Arabs and Muslims.
Helena: Given the quote from JES,
“Mark my words, Obama is leading the US into a double-dip recession with stagflation that should hit sometime between mid-term and the 2012 election. North Korea is going to continue to flex its muscles, and there’s a good chance that Iran will get the bomb and threaten the US oil supply…….”
It highly likely that JES must be a believer that The Pope is training Hizbullah members since according to Haaretz the Israeli military is at present distributing a US financed booklet that details how the Vatican is training Hezbullah to kill Israelis.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101158.html
“which came on the heals of your rather more suggestive “Israel Uber Alles”.”
No JES, it was you who said that and now you quote yourself as Helena saying it.
Vadim,
You seem to have some reading comprehension issues going on. Read again what I said about the admin putting settlements on the agenda and try not to jumble up the words. The sentences are clear enough.
I’m not sure what it is you’d like us all to comment about in a post with the title “WaPo bows cravenly to Israel lobby”?? Fly fishing? Or perhaps, how bad the other people are. If the subject isn’t one you’d like to talk about Vadim, then don’t comment. It’s quite simple, really it is.
Finally, I’ll ask again: what is your vision of an ideal future for Israeli’s and Palestinians, if not the present appalling state of affairs?
According to the book, Nasrallah was invited to join a delegation to tour France, Poland and Italy, including the Vatican. Nasrallah could not refuse an invitation from the Vatican, Avi explained: “We knew [the Pope] identified with Hezbollah’s struggle.”
LOL. Everyone knows that Nastyrallah hasn’t ventured out of his bunker for more than a few hours in three years!
Comment from… Helena, at July 15, 2009 05:47 PM:
Friends, Ruth has certainly overstepped the bounds of friendly discourse and has been banned.
Vadim, you are getting close to the line with your distractions, untruths, and hostility.
I think Domza is quite right to note that the more the heat is on the Israel-Uber-Alles crowd the more frenetically they will come and intervene in fora like this…
Hey Steve: Bite me!
And by the time Obama stands for reelection, Israel could become energy self-sufficient.
JES, I understand your link to Bitter Lemons. Even though you probably disagree with most of what is posted there at least the general tone and quality of argument is by most standards reasonable. But why LGF? How do you justify that link? What is it you find so agreeable about Charles and his legions?
“I find it very difficult to have empathy for people who kidnap soldiers and hold them for ransom, fire rockets indiscriminately on innocent civilians,”
What, no irony alert with this?
As to empathy: there is a foundation of empathy toward the Israeli people on the part of most who comment on this board. It seems to me that most who come here support the notion of a respectful and sustainable two state solution. That is always at the core of discussion. Isn’t that what you would also like to see, JES?
“I think Domza is quite right to note that the more the heat is on the Israel-Uber-Alles crowd the more frenetically they will come and intervene in fora like this…”
I think she was referring to you and a couple of others who post here. You’re out of context there JES. How unusual.
What is it you find so agreeable about Charles and his legions?
What is it that you find so disagreeable about Charles Johnson? I usually don’t read the comments there, so I wouldn’t know much about his “legions”, although I expect that he gets a whole lot more traffic than JWN.
I certainly advocate a two-state solution. (If you looked at my blog, you’d see that in the About section.) I disagree with your assessment of what “most who come here” advocate. It certainly does not appear to me that they want a two-state solution that is sustainable. (Even Helena insists on the “right of return” to Israel while paying lip service to “Jewish Israelis”.)
No Steve, you haven’t been around here that long, so quit defending Helena. She has made a habit of referring to the “Anschluss” and “Israel Uber Alles” for most of the four years I’ve been coming here. It’s just plain meanness.
You should read the comments section. I hope you’ll be horrified.
I’ve been around here longer than you seem to think, JES and I have to say that your own behavior and general tone of incivility is going to attract comments you don’t like. If you can’t take it then don’t dish it.
I can’t see where you support a two state solution in your “about” section, only that the hint that any empathy you had with your neighbors was perhaps youthful naiveity.
I certainly advocate a two-state solution. (If you looked at my blog, you’d see that in the About section.)
I looked at that egregious text, and I couldn’t anything about your approving a two-state solution, JES. All I could see was your remark about the “duplicity” of the Palestinians. I can see you are a Bernard Lewis. Study the Palestinians when they are nice and quaint, but approve their extermination when they have to be treated as equals.
So why is LGF so good? You haven’t answered the question.
I’d say that both Steve and Alastair have a reading comprehension problem. No, I didn’t say that I’d like to see a two-state solution. Let me ‘splain it to both of you. What I said was that:
I also experienced, what I see, as the duplicity of the Palestinian leadership at Camp David and Taba, which has made me less than optimistic about chances for the type of peace I’d like to see in my lifetime.
What am I less than optimistic about? Well first that there is the possibility of a two-state solution, although I do favor that as a phase in the “type of peace I’d like to see”, which is a Palestinian-Israeli Federation. Unfortunately, I don’t see that either side is ready for that, particularly not the Palestinian side.
Alastair, I like being compared with Bernard Lewis. You should substantiate your line about approving “of their extermination when they have to be treated as equals”. That’s just a plain lie. So now, in addition to being a phony, you’re also a liar.
BTW, LGF is informative. Charles Johnson tends to present current events without too much editorializing.
BTW Steve, you never told me what it is that you find disagreeable about Charles Johnson.
Thanks for the clarification JES. I agree that neither side is ready for a Palestinian-Israeli federation but I wouldn’t place the weight of blame so heavily on the Palestinian leadership side; duplicity and the undermining of the peace process isn’t theirs exclusively and almost all Israeli leaders have been at least equally obstructive to the process.
I find LGF to be a lightning rod for a bunch of pretty nasty people and stretches the boundaries of free speech toward incitement to violence.
I never did mean to paint a black and white picture (BTW, I think that your photos are excellent) of the situation. However, I think that the Palestinian side, and particularly under Arafat has been much more duplicitous. Instead of telling his people in the diaspora that they were going home, he could have been open with them should have begun preparing them for an alternative solution. He didn’t, and I think that this was because he did not plan on an alternative.
Perhaps LGF is a lightning rod. I think that this blog is also a lightning rod for some nasty, hateful people – just on a much, much smaller scale. But you still haven’t told me what you have against Charles Johnson. He doesn’t seem particularly nasty to me.
He doesn’t seem particularly nasty to me.
Really? I always found him to be a domineering insecure jerk, and his commenters completely rabid. “Saint Pancake” etc. He actually banned me one month after discovering his site and I havent been back. maybe he’s toned it down.
Thanks for the complement.
As you say, on a smaller scale. But, I’d venture to suggest, the brains are usually larger here and with far less access to – and willingness to use – firearms. I have nothing against him personally but he has a particular kind of following to which he throws red meat on a regular basis the, as far as I’ve seen, doesn’t make any attempt to moderate the following discussion. Irresponsible.
I think Arafat’s main crime was incompetence rather than duplicity, though he was what he was and he attracted his following for being a fairly typical Arab leader in an Arab land. But what happened when he did prepare his people for an alternative solution? He was further undermined.
Y’all have strayed quite far from the main topic of this post… But JES, Yasser Arafat has been dead for 4.5 years. Maybe you didn’t notice?
If you did, I don’t see why you expect your “explanation” above to have any persuasive power at all. Indeed, in light of Arafat’s death 4.5 years ago, it doesn’t make any sense. Or do you think that Arafat’s spirit still hovers ghoul-like over the whole Palestinian people?
JES at 10.13 am:
I certainly advocate a two-state solution.
JES at 11.03 am:
No, I didn’t say that I’d like to see a two-state solution.
So this guy is credible?
Actually JES has moved from being a peace activist (according to him), to being a right-wing racist Zionist, who apparently would approve of the Palestinians being eliminated from the country.
There is a general point here. I suspect there many Israelis like JES. His parents made Aliyah in the 30s, and then left. He himself is an American by birth, but felt the call. As long as the Palestinians weren’t a threat, he could interest himself in their curious and quaint anthropology. However, if there’s a demand for equality from the Palestinians, he immediately turns round and the Jewish State is primordial. Palestinian elimination would be accepted.
All those once-liberal Israelis are now extreme racists, with rare exceptions, such as Uri Avnery.
They have no vision of the future, just abuse of everyone in sight.
He said nothing about Jews having the right because Jerusalem is a holy city; He said that Jews have the same right to live anywhere in Jerusalem as they do to live in any major city or neighborhood in the world. I think that’s pretty clear.
The big difference is that Jews aren’t trying to expel other residents from London, New York, Paris or Rome.
Gilo is a settlement not a neighborhood as it did not exist (except as a biblical entity supposedly in the central Hebron Hills) prior to 1967.
BTW, WaPo is not the only media outlet which has no spine, CNN also claims that Gilo is a “neighborhood”.
Actually JES has moved from being a peace activist (according to him), to being a right-wing racist Zionist, who apparently would approve of the Palestinians being eliminated from the country.
Hey Alastair, so here’s another thing that you’re lying about. You’re a liar and a phony! You’ve ripped my statement out of its context to make a point, so you’re undoubtedly a lousy scholar to boot!
Helena, if you troubled yourself to read what I wrote and in what context, you’d see that Arafat is quite relevant, even 4.5 years after his death. After all, it’s been 63 years since the nakba, and you still think that that’s relevant!
JES, the Holocaust ended nearly seventy years ago, and you no doubt still think it’s relevant.
Of course, while the Holocaust ended nearly seven decades ago, the Nakba has never ended, and continues to this day, which makes it difficult to argue convincingly that it is not, and should not continue to be relevant.
First off “blowback”, I ask that you have a look here to see how wide spread the use of “neighborhood” is in describing Gilo.
Since when is the prior existence of a “neighborhood” a prerequisite for referring to it as such. And who exactly was expelled to construct Gilo?
As I said before, I think that this entire posting by Helena is utterly worthless, and probably an excuse for her to use her highly offensive term “Anschluss”. I should also reiterate that had she used the term “illegally annexed” I might have been inclined to agree with her.
Looks our “CAT” out of his balance. he went utterly
wiled in his comments he looks lost his temper….
go from here and relax make sure your blacklist now more names you should add to it.
Good luck our poor “CAT”….
“Instead of telling his people in the diaspora that they were going home…”
“going home”
“home”
Oops
Why use the term Anschluss and not “illegal annexation” ? Why not ?
History is repeating itself, replace Nazis with Zionists,and the victims of yesteryears with today’s victim and VOILA,,
ANSCHLUSS
After a prolonged period of political dictatorship, and intense Nazi propaganda inside Austria, German troops entered the country on March 12, 1938. They received the enthusiastic support of most of the population. Austria was incorporated into Germany the next day. In April, this German annexation was retroactively approved in a plebiscite that was manipulated to indicate that about 99 percent of the Austrian people wanted the union (known as the Anschluss) with Germany. Neither Jews nor Roma (Gypsies) were allowed to vote in the plebiscite. Following the Anschluss, the Germans quickly extended anti-Jewish legislation to Austria.
JES:
‘Oh come on Brian! Do you really think that Israel’s foreign ministry with a reported budget of $150,000 could sway media opinion. You know, taken together with your “truther” crap, I think that you’re really a wingnut.’
ever hear of the zionist lobby JES? Then theres this:
‘Pro-Israel media: Bloggers join media war
Some 1,000 new immigrants and foreign-language-speaking Jews volunteer to army of bloggers set up by Absorption Ministry and Foreign Ministry with the stated objective of flooding blogs with pro-Israel opinions
Itamar Eichner Published: 01.29.09, 09:52 / Israel Culture
Arye Sharuz-Shalicar, 31, whose parents emigrated from Iran to Germany, is a one-man PR show. He speaks Persian, German, English, French, and Spanish and can also get by in Russian, Turkish, Arabic, and Italian.
Sharuz-Shalicar is one of the front-line soldiers in the Ministry of Absorption’s new “army of bloggers” that was recently established in cooperation with the Foreign Ministry’s public relations department following Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. ‘
etc
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3663679,00.html
jes:
‘Boy, between you, Brian, Carroll, Steve, this site has really gone down hill’
true to zionist form, JES doesnt like alternrtive views…AAt least this site is still hasbara free…aprt from the comments section.
Tell that to your hasbara buddies JES
JES write
“I ask that you have a look here to see how wide spread the use of “neighborhood” is in describing Gilo.
Since when is the prior existence of a “neighborhood” a prerequisite for referring to it as such. And who exactly was expelled to construct Gilo?”
This is to miss the point.
The Corrections section in the WAPO exists to correct errors that appear in the paper. In this case, the point of the correction was not to assert that Gilo can be regarded as a neighborhood. (So what if it can.) The point was to remove the labelling of Gilo as a ‘settlement’. A uninformed reader looking at this correction would come away with the impression that it was inappropriate to have labelled Gilo a ‘settlement’. In fact, it is a settlement, and the correction simply obfuscates this matter.
Patrick, in your opinion do settlements have Arab residents? What in your view distinguishes a settlement from simply “occupied land” and why is one worse than the other?
israel has NO legal status…and continues to spead its enthicide to take even more of what is not its.
The WP is a lobby in all but official registration as such.
Anyway the WP is dying…as we can tell from their now having to actually solicit $ donations from lobbist in order to keep printing their talking points.
Doesn’t matter how much propa they print for Israel. Neighborhood, shamerhood,…the jig is up.
They don’t know the first rule of selling their wares…which is to “put people in the picture”..like a picture is worth a thousand words…as in pictures from Lebanon and Gaza the whole world has now seen.
Really dumb people. Would fail a sophmore Propaganda 101 course.
“”Helena, in answer to your question, I wasn’t referring to the meaning, which was pretty clear, I believe, from my post. Rather, I was referring to your use of German terms clearly associated with the Nazis, which is just plain mean and hurtful. I would not have had the same reaction had you used the term “illegal annexation” (in fact I might have agreed), which came on the heals of your rather more suggestive “Israel Uber Alles””
Oh gee, “mean and hurtful”?.. well cry us a river JES.
If the shoe fits..and it does in many ways…you’re going to have to wear it.
I use German terms to refer to some Israeli policies.
Exactly when did you or your fellow travelers buy the franchise on language?
FYI
Internet surfers paid to spread Israeli propaganda
Tags: COMPUTERS/INTERNET/SECURITY COVER-UP/DECEPTIONS/PROPAGANDA ISRAEL
The passionate support for Israel expressed on talkback sections of websites, internet chat forums, blogs, Twitter and Facebook may not be all that it seems.
Israel’s Foreign Ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.
Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters, mainly recent graduates and demobilized soldiers with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the government’s line on the Middle East conflict.
http://www.redress.cc/palestine/jcook20090722
From Michael rivero of Whatreallyhappened.com:
Webmaster’s Commentary:
So, from now on, ANY positive news about Israel must be assumed to be paid propaganda!
You listening JES?
Right Brian, so now you’ve posted Jonathan Cook’s rehashing of the Rona Kuperboim story. Big deal. It’s the same $150K, and $150K doesn’t go too far.
As Helena says: You’re getting nuttier and nuttier!
That’s right Gerald. I didn’t slip when I said “home”. It was their home, but in most cases there are other tenants there now, and the houses to which many of them still have keys are no longer standing. If Arafat had been a true leader, he would have spoken to them honestly.
‘It’s the same $150K, and $150K doesn’t go too far.’
yiud be surprised what you can buy for 150K. But the israelis and their sayanim deals in much bigger money…
You may work for peanuts…if so i admire your loyalty to israel.
Does helena say that? Id have said that about you, and im sorry she hasnt..you sound like a zionist troll, whose task is to cover israels naked backside
…whose task is to cover israels naked backside….
I don’t know whether it belongs to Israel or not, but his site is increasingly becoming a naked backside! LOL!
Sorry, that should have been “this site” not “his site”.
this site is reasonably honest…something zionism isnt. It doesnt belong to israelyou do.
Except that “Anschluß” denoted an annexation that a certain part of the population and certain political parties hotly anticipated, so it only works if you consider the West Bank as Judea and Samaria, in which case it’s a reunification/liberation, so “Wiedervereinigung” is the correct term. On a BIBLICAL time-scale, admittedly. Of course Israel-as-Nazi types don’t like that.