Israeli and pro-Israeli propaganda: Nuttier every day!

48 thoughts on “Israeli and pro-Israeli propaganda: Nuttier every day!”

1. But in a real sense, it is precisely the question of the moment. Why, in fact, should settlers be made to pay the price for peace?
   The answer, in short: Because of what the settlement movement has cost us, cost Israel. And because of what it is costing Israel now.
   A position pretty close to my own.

2. JES, while I’m sure the whole world joins me in hanging on your every word (irony alert!), you do seem to be, erm, changing the subject and therefore radically off-topic here.
   Don’t you have something to say about the increasing nuttiness of the hasbaristas’ claims, or the settler extremists’ frequent (and hasbara-fueled) recourse to racist violence?

3. Yes, Helena. I think that it’s disgusting – as you might tell from the linked article by Bradley Burston, if you had bothered to read it! So referencing it is on topic. (BTW, I also think that the Hizbalobbyists and Pallywood Propagandists are equally disgusting, but that is off topic.)
   To get back on topic, I think that you are wrong about the increasing nuttiness, as you call it. They have always been nuts. Nuts and violent. Some have been violent since they first moved into the territories some 35 years ago. (The vast majority, however, just like the vast majority of Palestinians have not been violent.) Do you remember 1973 and Sebastia? Or do you recall Moshe Feiglin? Or the murder of Emil Grunzweig in 1983.
   And now that I think about it, the Bradley Burston article is spot on topic. When you state that:
   Israel’s pro-settlement extremists still command plenty of real coercive power– and they seem increasingly inclined to use it as it becomes clear their claims to be allowed to roam freely and settle over all of the West Bank are meeting an unprecedentedly firm challenge from the US government.
   I don’t think that that’s the issue. As Burston points out their settlement has flown in the face of rank and file Israelis for more than three decades and has cost us plenty.

4. Who pays olive trees or settlers?
   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/israeli-settlers-set-fire_0_n_240987.html
   And so it goes.

5. “But the potential of this propaganda to whip up acts of continuing racist violence should also not be under-estimated.”
   A fitting last statement that could close many articles that discuss the actions of Israelis and Palestinians.

6. Internat’l Crisis Group report directly on this topic — on the rising role of Israel’s religious right….
   http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=6228&l=1

7. Obama’s Timebomb
   Benjamin Netanyahu’s refusal to obey the U.S. demand to halt construction in East Jerusalem and in the “settlement blocs” has wide support among Israelis, who are mostly dug in against what they consider a betrayal by the Americans.
   Betrayal by the Americans!
   Even politicians that are against the occupation have not spoken out in behalf of the Obama demand for a settlement freeze, according to Israeli journalist Aluf Benn.
   But if the Americans want to be a credible force for peace in Israel/Palestine it is important that they hold firm on their demand that Israel cease all settlement construction in all of the West Bank including Jerusalem.
   Each new Israeli structure designated “for Jews only ” prejudices a future settlement and makes a mockery of the “peace process.”
   I am afraid that Obama is not only going to make a mockery of the “peace process” but of the independence, what’s left of it, of the United States of America.

8. I am sorry to tell you that “Avi” does indeed exist, which doesn’t mean that he is a fabulist of the first order. If you read the post linked to my comment you’ll find that he is none other than Avraham Sinai, an ultra Orthdox convert to Judaism fr. Shiism. Quite a wild story. Which lends not a shred of credence to any of the wild claims offered in his booklet which the IDF credulously distributed to its troops in order to reinforce their worst racist attitudes toward Hezbollah & Arabs in general.
   And for shame that the premier organization representing the modern Orthodox Jewish movement published this crap.

9. Correction: “…Which doesn’t mean he is NOT a fabulist of the first order.”

10. Richard, thanks so much for the contribution. Readers here can see your blog post on “Avi” here, as you noted, or the earlier Y-net piece about him that you drew on, here.

11. Congrats to UOJCA for unearthing the long-lost Protocols of the Elders of Hizbollah (snark)!

12. No doubt the printed propaganda distributed to members of the IDF is often ‘nutty.’ But it is very clever, as is the verbal propaganda delivered to IDF soldiers on the eve of action. What it amounts to is a campaign of incitement to murder. The casualty rate in Gaza indicates its success.
    But what it also indicates is a very low level of moral and intellectual awareness among IDF recruits. It is worrying that the great majority don’t simpy laugh contemptuously at this sort of rubbish.
    It is worrying that diaspora ‘philanthropists’ don’t draw the line at contributing to the dumbing down, not to say Nazification, of young Israelis.
    Looking at all this against the stark backcloth of the Gaza massacres one is struck by the evidence it sheds on the brutalisation of an entire society and the trivialisation of an ancient religious tradition. It is small wonder thst the obscurantist wahabi agents of Saudi Arabia find the promotin of Israel’s agenda in Lebanon so congenial. Mr Dermer notwithstanding the two regimes have much, including allegiance to the United States, in common.

13. No doubt the printed propaganda distributed to members of the IDF is often ‘nutty.’ But it is very clever, as is the verbal propaganda delivered to IDF soldiers on the eve of action. What it amounts to is a campaign of incitement to murder. The casualty rate in Gaza indicates its success.
    But what it also indicates is a very low level of moral and intellectual awareness among IDF recruits. It is worrying that the great majority don’t simpy laugh contemptuously at this sort of rubbish.
    It is worrying that diaspora ‘philanthropists’ don’t draw the line at contributing to the dumbing down, not to say Nazification, of young Israelis.
    Looking at all this against the stark backcloth of the Gaza massacres one is struck by the evidence it sheds on the brutalisation of an entire society and the trivialisation of an ancient religious tradition. It is small wonder thst the obscurantist wahabi agents of Saudi Arabia find the promotion of Israel’s agenda in Lebanon so congenial. Mr Dermer notwithstanding the two regimes have much, including allegiance to the United States, in common.

14. China Hand, that’s it in a nutshell. I am watching this trend for quite a while now. It’s as if there was a deep desire for a conspiracy counter tale to the Protocols. It leaves traces on all layers from academics to hobby-conspiracy-historians. I occasionally encounter a settler women, from Italy if I remember correctly, on an academic list. Her website is growing. She seems to have crossed the red lines of paranoia with not much hope for return to more solid grounds. Maybe suspicion is the ultimate drive behind all this, psychologically. I don’t know enough about it yet.
    Thanks, Helena and Richard.

15. Lea, I don’t think that you need to go that far to find wild conspiracy tales. You can look right here, down near the bottom at “Comment from… brian, at July 18, 2009 05:29 AM:”. The entire “Truth” movement has crossed over that red line that you speak about.
    BTW, I didn’t know that the settlers were colonizing Italy now?

16. Regarding the continuing, actual capability and propensity of extremist Zionist groups to accompany their anti-Arab propaganda and ideology with acts of clearly racist violence
    Underwriting the Conflict in Hebron
    December 20, 2007

    On Nov. 18, in the beautifully appointed ballroom of Manhattan’s posh Grand Hyatt Hotel at Grand Central Station, the Hebron Fund held its annual fund-raising gala. According to organizers, guests paid upward of $300 a head, with anything above the cost of the dinner considered tax-deductible.

    I contacted several Hebron Fund donors, but none were willing to speak on the record about the settlement or about their support for the Hebron Fund. I found out later that, after hearing from me, one donor had immediately notified the group that a journalist was making calls. All of my questions for the Hebron Fund itself were directed to Baumol.

    So what is the role of an organization like the Hebron Fund in supporting this extremism? Hebron Fund Executive Director Yossi Baumol insists that the organization funds only “tours, pilgrimage, and religious study.” Israeli journalist Seth Freedman, who has gone on Hebron Fund-sponsored tours in the city, suggests that it’s difficult “to explicitly link the Hebron Fund and its activities to settler violence per se, since there is no formal process for funding terror in the same way that, say, the Palestinian militants raise funds.” But as Freedman points out, that’s because settler violence doesn’t require much money. Instead, the violence is more impromptu and more random. “It could be a group of settler women screaming abuse at Palestinian school kids, settler kids smashing shop windows, or a settler group marauding their way through an olive grove pointing guns, or even shooting at the farmers — none of which requires formal training or funding.”

    In their book Lords of the Land, Israeli journalists Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar recount the history of the settlements and the impossible situation that Israel has created for itself by allowing these communities to take root. Despite attempts by hard-line elements to describe the territory conquered in 1967 as “disputed,” the territory is broadly understood as occupied land that falls under the purview of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which relates to the protection of civilians under occupation by a foreign power. As article 49 of the Convention states, “the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies,” the settlements are considered as illegal under international law.

    The Israeli occupation has transformed Palestinian Hebron into an open-air prison in which any sort of normal life is impossible. Hebron’s Palestinian citizens regularly endure round-the-clock curfews. They are effectively under house arrest, sometimes for weeks at a time. Violence at the hands of settlers is also a fact of Palestinian life in Hebron. The Israeli human-rights organization B’Tselem states that attacks by settlers “include beatings, blocking of passage, destruction of property, throwing of stones and eggs, hurling of refuse … urinating from the settlement structure onto the street,” and that “the soldiers and police who witness attacks fail to take sufficient action to stop the attacks and enforce the law. At times they do nothing.”

    Such stridently racist attitudes are borne out in numerous videos (many of them available on YouTube) taken by peacemaker teams in Hebron, in which leering, taunting settler youths shove, hit, and throw stones at Palestinian civilians, including elderly people and children on their way to school, all under the watchful eyes of Israeli troops. In one particularly disturbing video, a teenage girl of no more than 13 repeatedly strikes an elderly Palestinian woman, while a soldier stands behind her, intervening only to make sure the woman does not retaliate.

17. Doubts over Obama’s ‘peace engine’
    JERUSALEM – A joke deriding United States President Barack Obama is making the rounds in Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s cabinet, according to Aluf Benn, the normally well-informed diplomatic correspondent for the Ha’aretz newspaper: “What do Americans do when anything breaks down in their home – when the sink is blocked, the toilet overflows, or a fuse snaps? Simple: They ask Barack Obama to give a speech and the problem is solved.”
    No one is saying it out loud in the Israeli corridors of power, but listening to talk from Netanyahu officials, one’s left with the distinct impression that the unspoken punch line of the anti-Obama joke is: “He’ll do the talking, we’ll do the policy-making.”

18. Presidency Statement on actions in East Jerusalem
    The Presidency of the European Union urges Israel to refrain from provocative actions in East Jerusalem, including home demolitions and evictions, as stated also by the Quartet 26 June 2009. Such actions are illegal under international law.
    Regarding threats of imminent evictions, the Presidency recalls the EU declaration of 24 March 2009:

    “The EU is deeply concerned by the issuing of eviction notices to the al-Rawi and Hanoun families in East Jerusalem. These eviction notices follow other recent orders which adversely affect Palestinians living in East Jerusalem and, combined with the increase in settlement activity in East Jerusalem, further threaten the chances of peace. We have raised our concerns with the Israeli government and call on Israel to suspend these eviction notices immediately and, in addition, to allow the al-Kurd family to return to their home.”

    That’s the Presidency of the EU, of course, not the US. Obama has done the talking and now Netanyahu will set the policy.

19. speaking of pro-israelis:
    ‘How Israel Lobby took control of US foreign policy
    AIPAC becomes foreign agent dominating American foreign policy while disguised as domestic lobby.
    etc
    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/features/?id=33233

20. BTW, I didn’t know that the settlers were colonizing Italy now?
    From Italy, JES, honey pie. Settling Judea & Samaria. Initially I was interested in an exchange, I wondered when she once signed something with “Elders of Zion wannabe”, I wanted to understand why she did it. But she didn’t respond. Over the years I can only watch her site grow and getting more and more weird.

21. BTW, I didn’t know that the settlers were colonizing Italy now?
    From Italy, JES, honey pie. Settling Judea & Samaria. Initially I was interested in an exchange, I was startled when she once signed something with “Elders of Zion wannabe”, I wanted to understand why she did it. If it was irony or she was simply cynical … But she didn’t respond. Over the years I can only watch her site grow and getting more and more weird.

22. Note to Brian:
    Obviously you have found the scoop with that article, “Israel Lobby took control of US foreign policy.” Yep, that sounds just about right, with no conspiracy theory or Elders of Zion aspect to it what so ever.
    Good Luck.
    David

23. Huummm….
    I remember we had a world war over a country/group employing similiar tactics…rolling over other countries,confiscating land and property, targeting ethnics, undesirables and religions, being masterrace and fatherland fanatics……what was the outcome of that war again?
    Just shrink it to a midget reproduction and you have the same movie.

24. LeaNder babooshka.
    Is “her” site weirder than what the only democray in the ME is promoting in the claim that the Pope is trainig Hezbullah’s men to do in the IDF’s ” creme de la creme”?
    People who claim “God” gave them title to a a piece of real estate calling those who may question such a transaction taking place being called weird by them.
    Quelle blague!

25. what elders of Zion aspect, David?

26. Lea, sugar, thanks for clarifying that.

27. …what elders of Zion aspect, David?
    I think that what David means is that when faced with the obvious illogic of the argument that a people who number, in total, around 15 million worldwide, and less than 2% of the US can totally sway US foreign policy, that you have to turn to the inherent cunning and wealth of the Jews (or Zionists), makes your argument like the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.

28. Continuing insanity: Koret Foundation up in arms about Cindy Corrie, Jewish Voice for Peace and the Quakers
    Jewish Voice for Peace, the sponsor of Muzzlewatch, has about 85,000 supporters; an advisory board that includes some of the best known Jewish thinkers and artists in the world; a program staff and board that is 100% Jewish; members who are rabbis, Holocaust survivors, Jewish educators, yeshiva graduates, Israeli military veterans and more; and an incoming director who has just spent the last three years living in Israel with her family.
    And we’re dedicated to justice and self-determination for Israelis and Palestinians.
    But none of that, apparently, qualifies Jewish Voice for Peace to be part of the Jewish community as defined by….funders! In fact, the experts at the Koret Foundation have determined that we are, yes, here it comes, you never heard this one before………. “anti-Semites!” How cliche! How funny! How completely unoriginal! (OK, to be fair, that’s not exactly what they called us. What they actually said was “virulently anti-Semitic.” )
    Yes it’s nutty… but it’s so vicious. These folks have totally given themselves over to hatred. It makes one fear that they are truly capable of the worst acts of depravity… of anything!
    Israel is under their control and Israel has nuclear weapons.

29. ‘and less than 2% of the US can totally sway US foreign policy, ‘
    FYI JES and david…not that you arent aware, but just so its in the opem:
    ‘The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy[1] is the title of a book by John Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, Professor of International Relations at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, published in late August 2007 by Farrar, Strauss, and Giroux. It was a New York Times Best Seller[2].
    The book describes the lobby as a “loose coalition of individuals and organizations who actively work to steer U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction,”[3]. The book “focuses primarily on the lobby’s influence on U.S. foreign policy and its negative effect on American interests”[4]. The authors also argue that “the lobby’s impact has been unintentionally harmful to Israel as well”[5].
    The authors argue that although “the boundaries of the Israel lobby cannot be identified precisely”, it “has a core consisting of organizations whose declared purpose is to encourage the U.S. government and the American public to provide material aid to Israel and to support its government’s policies, as well as influential individuals for whom these goals are also a top priority”[6]. They note that “not..every American with a favorable attitude to Israel is part of the lobby”[7], and that although “the bulk of the lobby is comprised of Jewish Americans”[8], there are many American Jews who are not part of the lobby, and the lobby also includes Christian Zionists[9]. They also note a drift of important groups in the lobby to the right[10], and overlap with the neoconservatives[11].
    etc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy
    http://www.amazon.com/They-Dare-Speak-Out-Institutions/dp/155652482X
    Yes israelis lobby does exert undue influence on corrupt ameicanb politicians..which is most of them.
    You can deny it all you like….that only proves you are a zionist. Indeed why are you nhere if not to impose the zionist story on the rest of us
    .Luckily (unluckily for u) people here are not so corrupt as elsewhere.

30. ‘Israeli and pro-Israeli propaganda: Nuttier every day!’
    This is tailor made for JES.

31. Twitterers Paid to Spread Israeli Propaganda
    Internet Warfare Team Unveiled
    by Jonathan Cook / July 21st, 2009
    The passionate support for Israel expressed on talkback sections of websites, internet chat forums, blogs, Twitters and Facebook may not be all that it seems.
    Israel’s foreign ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.
    Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters, mainly recent graduates and demobilised soldiers with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the government’s line on the Middle East conflict.
    “To all intents and purposes the internet is a theatre in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and we must be active in that theatre, otherwise we will lose,” said Ilan Shturman, who is responsible for the project.
    etc
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/twitterers-paid-to-spread-israeli-propaganda/

32. Thanks to JES for pointing out what to Brian what I thought was obvious.
    Yes, Brian I have heard of the book “The Israel Lobby”. I even read it. The theme of the book is that US policy is influenced by this lobby as opposed to the statement above “took control”.
    That’s the difference. The Israeli lobby influences US government policy as do lots of other lobby groups including a few pro-Arab groups. No, they are not nearly as successful at it. But there is a big difference between “influence” and “took over”.

33. ‘That’s the difference. The Israeli lobby influences US government policy as do lots of other lobby groups including a few pro-Arab groups’
    wrong david(Hows you mossda lifestyle)..ive yet to see any expose of arab groups controlling ..sorring ‘ifluencing’ Congress. Nice atttempt at misdirection

34. Brian,
    You obviously found the book much more convincing than I did. But I don’t really think you needed much convincing that Israel acts as a puppet master behind the scenes secretly running the US government. And the fact that I deny this obviously means I’m one of those agents who is being paid by the Israelis government to post these pro-Israel comments (somewhere else on this blog I think I read about them). I just better make sure I report that income on my taxes because other conspiracy theorists tell me the IRS has spies everywhere. Oh wait, maybe I don’t have to worry about that. Does Israel also run the IRS? Or is it just the state department, legislature and executive branches?
    It was not an attempt at misdirection, just stating a fact – other lobby groups try to influence US policy. There are groups that try to influence policy towards China, towards Russia, Cuba (that’s a strong lobby group). There are lobby groups that try to influence domestic policy towards agriculture, energy. If the US government is really run by Israel, why do these groups work out of Washington, why don’t they move their organizations to Israel, the real source of US policy?

35. well david, youre a zionist, so naturally youd not find the book’s thesis convincing.Zionists want power over the most powerful people on earth, but not to have it made public.

36. ‘There are groups that try to influence policy towards China, towards Russia, Cuba (that’s a strong lobby group).’
    what cuba lobby? If you mean the cuban exiles….yes, they do have influence..notice how its the aggressive and evil lobbies who have the most influence and power. But how manyn get to invite congressmen and senators and non jews to swear allegience to a foreign country?
    ‘At the annual policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee this week in Washington, a conservative Christian couple from eastern Tennessee told me that their son had decided to join the Israeli army. It was one of many surreal moments during the three-day gathering hosted by AIPAC, the lobbying group devoted to ensuring close U.S.-Israel ties that remains extraordinarily influential in Washington. “We just love God, and we just love Israel,” the couple beamed, when I asked why they had come to the conference’
    http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/salon061.html
    ‘In contrast to the Bush Administration bureaucrats, who seemed to contort themselves to avoid mentioning Israel in this Arab-focused conference, the congressional delegation seemed comfortable declaring their allegiance to the Jewish state, an unpopular position here.
    ‘
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×1491761
    who does that over cuba or russia!

37. Us congress persons like to say israel-us is a ‘special’ relation and that its indestructible etc… What country could kill us sailors and still get US funding.

38. Brian and similarly minded readers,
    I found the book unconvincing not because I’m a Zionist but because the arguments the authors made were unconvincing.
    As one example, where the authors argue that Bush didn’t enter office intending to invade Iraq, instead it was the Israel lobby that made him do it. The evidence the authors present is that Bush told reporter Bob Woodward in an interview for the book “Plan of Attack” that he didn’t enter office intending to invade. That’s pretty much it.
    There is a mountain of evidence that Bush entered office with the intention of invading Iraq. Whether it rises to the level of a “slam dunk” is debatable, but it can’t be dismissed with reference to a single self-serving statement in an interview for a book.
    It’s shoddy scholarship that makes it unconvincing. Not their conclusion.
    In the run up to the war I thought that Bush and the neo-conservatives really thought that when they removed Saddam Hussein that a democracy would appear. Aligned with the west, it would have a free market economy. And with all that oil it would become and economic powerhouse. This would then have a domino effect and all over the middle east, democracies would spring up like flowers after a spring rain. Their motivation was that this would remake the world in the image of America. That it would benefit Israel was just a subset of benefits that would come from transforming the world.

39. The second post by Brian, where you want to misdirect the argument with the statement from the Christian couple at the AIPAC convention. As Michael Oren writes in his recent book there has always been a strong connection between the US and the Holy land. In one of her early books Barbara Tuchman shows the same relationship between Britain and the holy land. Both authors trace the evidence to a time well before the state Israel or even the Zionist movement. It’s not due to an Israel lobby.
    BTW, unless the law has changed that couples son won’t be accepted in the Israeli army. The Israeli army doesn’t accept non-citizens. Some armies do. I believe both the British and US armies allow non-citizens to enlist. Some don’t. Israel is one that doesn’t.

40. So it’s not just recently that Israel runs the US but it was that way back in 1967 also. The fact that Johnson didn’t do any of the things that might have prevented the six day doesn’t contradict this. No effort was made to force open the Suez canal or the Straits of Tiran. And definitely no public, or even as I understand it a back channel diplomatic communication, that the US will guarantee Israel’s existence.
    Maybe that’s it. Israel needed the six-day war to acquire all that territory so they told Johnson not to do any of these things. Of course, it wouldn’t have worked if Nasser hadn’t closed the waterways, removed the UN force and threatened war. Maybe he was also a Mossad agent.

41. ‘I found the book unconvincing not because I’m a Zionist but because the arguments the authors made were unconvincing’
    sure dave….But your need to engage in reasoning to defend the indefendsible is mitself interesting.
    The israeli lobby has been the main crier and suport for the war on iraq…as we know, israel has for years wanted to remove this obstacle to their power.AND saddam was a supporter of the palestinian resistance.
    You also forget that when bush took office, he appointed the neocons. most of whom are zionists/
    ‘In the run up to the war I thought that Bush and the neo-conservatives really thought that when they removed Saddam Hussein that a democracy would appear.’
    naieve and unbelieveable, dave!
    ‘Aligned with the west, it would have a free market economy. And with all that oil it would become and economic powerhouse. This would then have a domino effect and all over the middle east, democracies would spring up like flowers after a spring rain.’
    excuse me. while i barf!
    So like you dave to make these odious claims, Democracy means rule by a people, not invasion by frauds mascarading as friends/

42. ‘Michael Oren writes in his recent book there has always been a strong connection between the US and the Holy land. ‘
    cute source…The ‘holy land’ is someone elses country. coveted by christians since the dadys of the crusaders. US = new crusaders.
    The tuchman article is just as in inapt.You keep trying to save the zionist bacon. Zionists use british american or anyone to further their purposes…including a lot of corrupt deluded congressmen…

43. ‘Maybe that’s it. Israel needed the six-day war to acquire all that territory so they told Johnson not to do any of these things’
    started the war in fact.
    ‘it wouldn’t have worked if Nasser hadn’t closed the waterways, removed the UN force and threatened war’
    interesting:
    ‘Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula in May 1967.[7] The peacekeeping force had been stationed there since 1957, following a British-French-Israeli invasion which was launched during the Suez Crisis’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
    cause and effect…But yes israel needed a war to gain territory/
    its not clear why johnson would back the israelis in the attack on the US Liberty///
    ‘Domestic politics. Johnson, a man never noted for high moral values, preferred to cover up the attack rather than anger a key constituency and major financial backer of the Democratic Party. Congress was even less eager to touch this ‘third rail’ issue.
    Commander McGonagle was quietly awarded the Medal of Honor for his and his men’s heroism – not in the White House, as is usual, but in an obscure ceremony at the Washington Navy Yard. Crew member’s graves were inscribed, ‘died in the Eastern Mediterranean..’ as if they had be killed by disease, rather than hostile action.
    A member of President Johnson’s staff believed there was a more complex reason for the cover-up: Johnson offered Jewish liberals unconditional backing of Israel, and a cover-up of the ‘Liberty’ attack, in exchange for the liberal toning down their strident criticism of his policies in the then raging Vietnam War.
    Israel, which claims it fought a war of self defense in 1967 and had no prior territorial ambitions, will be much displeased by Bamford’s revelations. Those who believe Israel illegally occupies the West Bank and Golan will be emboldened.’
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

44. ‘The Israeli army doesn’t accept non-citizens’
    oh really?
    ‘Record number of Americans join Israeli army
    A record number of young American Jews have committed to moving to Israel and enlisting in the 2007 Israel Defense Forces (IDF) draft, reported Israel’s largest daily newspaper, Yediot Ahronot.
    One hundred fifty American Jews between the ages of 18 and 23 will arrive in Israel this month to participate in the draft, and all have requested that the army enlist them in combat units.
    Army officials said the number of American Jews who agreed to come serve in the IDF this year surprised them, considering that just last summer Israel was embroiled in a bloody and devastating 34-day war with Lebanon’s Hizballah.
    The new recruits were described as being “imbued with Zionism and sky-high motivation.”
    The arrival of the American volunteers coincides with a social crisis within Israel regarding the growing percentage of young native born Israelis who are dodging the IDF draft. ‘
    http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:lQmeQ_nnaWsJ:www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx%3Ftabid%3D178%26nid%3D13681+israeli+army+americans+serve&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
    or are they dual citizens?

45. mor on those non-israelis in the israeli OFFENSIVE force:
    Overseas volunteers
    Foreigners typically serve with the IDF in one of three ways:
    The Mahal program is for young non-Israeli Jews (men younger than 24 and women younger than 21). The program consists typically of 16 months of IDF service, including a lengthy training for those in combat units or one month of non-combat training and additional three months of learning Hebrew after enlisting, if necessary. Volunteering for longer service is possible. There are two additional subcategories of Mahal, both geared solely for religious men: Mahal Nahal Haredi (16 months), and Mahal Hesder, which combines yeshiva study of 6.5 months with IDF service of 14.5 months, for a total of 21 months. Similar IDF programs exist for Israeli overseas residents.
    Sar-El is a program for non-Israeli citizens, Jews and non-Jews, who are 17 years or older (or 14 if accompanied by parents). It usually consists of three weeks of volunteer service on different rear army bases, doing non-military work.
    Garin Tzabar is a program mainly for Israelis who emigrated with their parents to the United States at a young age. Although a basic knowledge of the Hebrew language is not mandatory, it is helpful. Of all the programs listed, only Garin Tzabar requires full-length service in the IDF. The program is set up in stages: first the participants go through five seminars in their country of origin, then have an absorption period in Israel at a kibbutz. Each delegation is adopted by a kibbutz in Israel and has living quarters designated for it. The delegation shares responsibilities in the kibbutz when on military leave. Participants start the program three months before being enlisted in the army at the beginning of August.
    Marva Short Term Basic Training – 2 months ‘
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Overseas_volunteers
    so youre wrong again dave….
    ‘

46. Well it looks like things have changed. It would appear the army now accepts non-citizens or they’re somehow getting immediate citizenship. You’re right I stand corrected.
    And I would like to clairfy something. Either I said it poorly or I think you misunderstood. I said that I thought Bush really did believe that a democracy would appear following the ouster of Saddam Hussein. I did not say that I agreed with that. I didn’t. I was very much against the US invasion of Iraq. Not that it matters much. Not everyone who supports Israel is a Mossad neo-con agent.
    It wasn’t a Tuchman article, it was an early book. I don’t remember the title. It also wasn’t that memorable.
    One last thing Brian, the hate seems to come straight through your posts. I feel sorry for you. And as long as every pro-Israel statement is only met with a response of Zionist or Mossad agent no common ground is going to be found, let alone a solution.
    Good luck.
    Now just one last point. The hate seems to come straight through your posts.

47. hate in my posts? Id reserve your pity for the victims of israeli aggression and organ harvesting:
    http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-01/14/article19.shtml
    and i didnt realise you were looking for a solution, so muct as acting as a PR agent for israel!

48. israel accepts non=itizens as well as Non-=israeli money for its continued genocide against the palestinians and attacks on neighboring countries…if an arab country does that the persons recruited get treated as criminals by their home countries

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