The revelations Thursday about the British and Pakistani intel services having uncovered and “taken down” a plot to blow many western airliners up over the highseas came as Bill and I were flying to California. We heard nothing of the plot before boarding the small plane in Charlottesville. But when we boarded the big transcontinental flight from Dulles to LA, passengers coming into Dulles were already having to go through extensive security checks.
As someone who flies quite frequently and whose loved ones and friends also fly frequently, I am extremely happy that all necessary and sensible steps are taken to safeguard the security of the air travel system around the world. None of us has yet had the opportunity to examine in full the evidence the British and Pakistanis had against the alleged authors of those plots, but they sounded very, very scary.
It is notable that it was solid police work that succeeded in preventing those murderous acts from being committed.
What a contrast with the situations in Iraq and Lebanon, where the UK, US, their allies, and Israel have all tried to use massive military force against opponents while claiming that these opponents either were terrorists or gave support to terrorists… And far from bringing an end to violence and threats of violence, those military acts had these features:
- (1) They were themselves acts of massive, and wildly indiscriminate violence that murdered hundreds of civilians(in Lebanon) and many thousands (in Iraq),
(2) They significantly distracted the attention and resources of decisionmakers away from pursuing the very necessary tasks of stabilizing post-Taliban Afghanistan and its quite unctrolled border area with Pakistan, and
(3) They also sowed the seeds for radically increased anti-western hatred among the very community– the worldwide Muslim community– where, as western leaders must surely understand, an important battle of ideas against the proponents of Al-Qaeda violence must be fought and won.
The US, UK, their allies, and Israel have all seemed addicted to the use of militaristic violence. In the UK, there are also those who pursue the smarter path using solid police work to investigate reports of terrorist planning… But how much less inclination to join those plots would there have been if the Blair government had not also joined the US in its military adventure in Iraq, and had not supported the Israeli government in so many of its oppressive and violent acts in palestine and Lebanon– but if instead, he had coolly pursued a policy stressing nonviolent resolution of conflicts and human equality?
Well, recourse to military force to “solve” outstanding problems should surely have gotten a bad reputation by now, after all we have witnessed in Iraq and Lebanon. I believe it’s time to stress that point as hard and as fast as we can…
(I’ll be flying home on Sunday night. Let’s hope the air travel system stays safe.)
What a contrast with the situations in Iraq and Lebanon, where the UK, US, their allies, and Israel have all tried to use massive military force against opponents while claiming that these opponents either were terrorists or gave support to terrorists…
I am sure Helena your pacifist fluff has a way of stopping rockets with a policeman and his whistle. Interestingly the british moslem leaders are tying this terror act by Pakistani Britons to Blairs foreign policy. It doesn’t get any closer to blackmail than that. Rather than the democratic path they are trying the bend the Brits through explosions. Here is the CNN link:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/12/terror.plot/index.html
The arrests have led to increased pressure on Britain’s Muslim community, prompting leaders to publish an open letter to Prime Minister Tony Blair in which they blame his foreign policy for inciting extremist anger.
2006-08-11 Bliar’s liquid bomb
“I am sure Helena your pacifist fluff has a way of stopping rockets with a policeman and his whistle.”
And the U.S./British/Israeli approach has been so very effective! I mean, my goodness! Since Israel began dealing all that death and destruction in Lebanon they have had rockets falling on their cities at the rate of 100-200 per day instead of a lone rocket or two on rare occasions. Now THAT’s what I call the right way to stop rockets! What on earth is wrong with the rest of the world that they do not adopt this approach to stopping rockets?
“the british moslem leaders are tying this terror act by Pakistani Britons to Blairs foreign policy. It doesn’t get any closer to blackmail than that.”
I suppose that it hasn’t occurred to you at all that British moslem (sic) leaders are simply pointing out reality. No, of course it hasn’t.
I remain quite skeptical about this latest “busted terrorist ring/foiled plot”. Perhaps this one, unlike all the past “busted terrorist ring/foiled plots”, is for real, but only a fool would assume that after all the ones that have proven to be utterly bogus. Remember those last two dangerous “terrorist rings” they uncovered – the one in the South (was it New Orleans? I forgot), and the one in Ohio? In one case as I recall, some of the “incriminating evidence” was actually purchased for the supposed terrorists by the government agent who had infiltrated and, by all appearances put ideas into their poor addled heads. It looks like the Bush and Blair governments are getting awfully desperate!
Wbile I do not reject completely the possibility that this latest is the real thing, for now I remain extremely skeptical based on the Bush regime’s history of fakery and nonsense. I resent very much that now – most likely completely unnecessarily – I will be forced to endure the effect of the dry air on the planes because I will not be able to clean my contact lenses, or use liquid tears to relieve the dryness in my eyes. Nor will I be able to brush my teeth or freshen my makeup, even during stopovers. I heard they were even confiscating books from passengers in some cases, which means that I will also be deprived of something useful to do to relieve the incredible boredom of long flights. And it is very likely that we are all being subjected to these discomforts not due to any real threat, but because the government is manipulating us.
And to make matters worse, I will be flying to Pakistan in January to attend the wedding of a friend. No doubt that destination will result in even more limitations and scrutiny.
I believe it’s time to stress that point as hard and as fast as we can…
You should, and other friends here and there all should work hard to stop this attitude of aggression to us (Arabs Land) we got sick and tired of your wars and aggression enough its enough lets live in peace all of us on this earth its enough to all of us if we live with love…
Interestingly the british moslem leaders are tying this terror act by Pakistani Britons to Blairs foreign policy.
Interestingly the heads of the British security services (MI5, MI6 and GCHQ) all agree –
“We judge that the conflict in Iraq has exacerbated the threat from international terrorism and will continue to have an impact in the long term. It has reinforced the determination of terrorists who were already committed to attacking the West and motivated others who were not.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2114502,00.html
In fact, the majority of the world think invading Iraq increased the terrorism threat –
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4755770.stm
None of which should be a surprise, least of all to Tony Blair. He was clearly warned by the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) before the invasion of Iraq that –
“The JIC assessed that al-Qaida and associated groups continued to represent by far the greatest terrorist threat to Western interests, and that threat would be heightened by military action against Iraq.”
http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/reports/isc/
The invasion of Iraq (and now the destruction of Lebanon) was not only immoral, illegal and unnecessary, it was also a spectacular propaganda coup for radical Islamists. The U.S. Defense Science Board Strategic Communication Study summed it up nicely –
“[the] dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims.”
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf
.I suppose that it hasn’t occurred to you at all that British moslem (sic) leaders are simply pointing out reality.
terror attacks are never legitimate, so it doesn’t matter what ‘inspired’ them, and “pointing it out” is coersion by proxy – like pointing out how the victims short skirt meant that she asked for it and therefore that women need to cover themselves. muslim leaders shouldn’t link -in any way- their political grievances to those of psychotics & criminals.
will not be able to clean my contact lenses
this is truly heartbreaking.
Vadim, is the bombing of Lebanese civilians a “terror attack” or not?
I don’t get this. The Israelis go into Lebanon and bombs everything in sight and the west sits back and applauds. In the “war on terror” anything goes.But when it comes to terrorists on our own soil we talk around in circles. If we are really serious about stamping out terrorism, we should target those neigborhoods in London where there are high concentrations of Muslims and bomb them back to the stone age. Let’s follow the Israeli example. Heck, maybe the Israelis will do it for us since they’ll probably be running out of targets in Lebanon soon.
Ron, they won’t run out of targets as long as one Lebanese baby or grandmother is left alive in the country. After all, every baby is a potential future Khizbollakh member, and every grandmother has some likelihood of having a son or daughter or grandson or granddaughter or niece or nephew who is a Khizbollakh teghghoghist.
Um . . . what’s a teghghoghist?
I tried to look it up at dictionary.com, and it asked “Did you mean twiggiest?” I thought probably not.
John,
Listen carefully to the Israeli propaganda merchants and you will understand what a teghghoghist is. You will also learn the right way to pronounce words like Khizbollakh, Khamas, Khaifa, and so on.
Neat! I’ve quoted by the BBC on this issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4788101.stm
He was also asked his opinion on a letter written by a group of British Muslim leaders who believed the UK’s foreign policy could be linked to the terror threat.
Mr Reid said such a belief was a “dreadful misjudgement that foreign policy of this country should be shaped in part, or in whole, under the threat of terrorism activity”.
Shadow home secretary David Davis
Davis has reiterated that terrorists acts are barbaric, criminal, inhumane, unjustified, disprortionate. This is a separate proposition to the one where he addresses strategies for dealing with terrorism. He also suggests an example of “the closest thing to blackmail”, which I’m also not addressing in this post. Extorting money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information is a crime.
It is logicaly possible that one could believe that a poster to this blog could support inciting terror through indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians. Such a possibility has lead Davis to post comments critical of such activities and mentality, in what is, after all, an Al-Qaeda related topic and what’s looming in the media at the moment.
Davis links to an argument concerning the statisticly insignificant proportion of such murders that are currently the result of muslim extremist terrorism.
As the quoted Shadow HS Davis said, most muslims (and other people) are not terrorists, and I agree quite rightly so. He acknowledges they have every right to feel argumentative about the indiscriminate murder of innocent muslim civilians, and the illegal occupation of their homelands, as also seems to be the case.
Vadim, is the bombing of Lebanese civilians a “terror attack” or not?
Absolutely not. You might think its a war crime (depending on your standards of proportionality, tactical necessity, indiscriminate nature of attack, negligence etc) but it’s totally unlike deliberate targeting of civilians with NO tactical military objective….Since i’m sure you believe that Israel “deliberately targets” civilians, you’ll need to explain why 1.) they bother dropping leaflets before air raids, and 2.) why with their terrifying arsenal they choose not to kill 1,000 x more civilians than they do now, or use their nuclear weapons. Blowing up airliners (unlike a power stations) has zero tactical military value & targets only civilians. It’s idiotic to “explain” pure terrorism in terms of one’s own politics or advertise causes you might have in common, then wonder why your causes are associated with terrorism.
Ring a ring a poses. Pocket full of nukies. Ker chew ker chew. All fall down. Israel’s nukes. Prevailing winds. Blowing which way? This way. That way. Every which way. Radio. Activity. Old biblical saw. So so sowing. Beep beep beep reaping. Mojo. Mojo. Mo memory lane. Bobster Dylan. Times. Mutability. But you hang in there, Major T. J. King Kong Vadim babe.
“it’s totally unlike deliberate targeting of civilians with NO tactical military objective”
This war has exposed, with undeniable clarity, the hypocrisy and self-deceipt of those who claim that “collateral damage” from aerial bombardment of towns and cities is somehow different than intentional mass murder of civilians. You can keep making that claim, Vadim, but the lie is evident.
We can thank the government of Israel for reminding us that the essence of modern warfare is the destruction of civilian life. In WWII, a less media-sensitive time, this was practically taken for granted. The fire-bombing of Dresden and Tokyo, not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki, would have been difficult to explain otherwise. The idea was then, and is today, that in a war “for our national survival” we have to take away the enemy’s “will to fight.” This has always been understood to involve “bringing the war home” to the people inhabiting the enemy’s territory.
Of course, this is exactly how Al Qaeda views its mission. Your words “tactical military objective” are carefully chosen to draw arbitrary distinctions between the methods used by nation-states and non-state actors to slaughter innocent civilians, in order to get their messages across. The victims don’t care whether they were killed for “tactical” or ideological reasons, or whether the bombs that incinerated them were military ordinance or IED’s.
Your only excuse is that the IDF could have killed even more civilians if it had wanted to. Any common criminal can offer that defense. No jury will buy it.
John C maybe if someone like Dershowitz ran that argument as counsel for the criminal it might work. Oh, hang on he already is.
I think one has to admit the IAF/IDF have a point comparing Dresden to their atrocities and war crimes. One can only take it so far though, I don’t think the problem could really be solved by lending HA some strategic bombers so they can be chivilrous. But looking at results to date, they would probably still be more inclined to not only target but hit enemy military targets, given what they have done with quite basic imprecise rockets. And look at the restraint HA have shown in Haifa, where a BBC crew was been able to film a report every day, because they were in the middle of the city and not at the port/naval base.
The Lebanon invasion seems different to the young british muslim terrorists airliner plot, simply because it is, aside from the involvement of muslims angry at the occupation of their homelands. If you invade Christian homelands, the christians get angry too, look at lebanese christians today. Even Budhists apparently get quite snarky. That doesn’t mean they would automaticly be terrorists. But one can imagine it might create a few more somewhere.
But looking at results to date, they would probably still be more inclined to not only target but hit enemy military targets, given what they have done with quite basic imprecise rockets. And look at the restraint HA have shown in Haifa, where a BBC crew was been able to film a report every day, because they were in the middle of the city and not at the port/naval base.
I fail to see your point. Hizballah did not inflict more damage on the center of Haifa (not military targets) simply because they were unable to launch more long range rockets.
Most of their fire was directed at the Krayot north of the city, undoubtedly in an attempt to hit chemical storage facilities and thereby cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Their attacks on Haifa itself were all in civilian areas. Wadi Nas-Nas, for example is neither a military target, nor is it near a military target. As best as I can gather, Hizballah didn’t even come close to the “port/naval base” and don’t appear to have even been aiming at these.
It is interesting that Nasrallah in his next to last television address expressly told Arab residents of Haifa to leave the city. I don’t think that they live in the naval base!
Correction.
Should have been “hundreds or thousands of deaths”.
JES-I think the overall score of civilian and combatant casualties is a good starthing place. But I did talk about Haifa and you have raised some points. I have not as yet been to Haifa and was only going by reports I recall reading so I suspect you have me at a disadvantage on that. I will have to ask a few questions to see if I have my facts straight on this one or not.
The BBC were at the Panorama, above the Bahai Gardens. Isn’t that the centre of town? I understand the city to be on a ridge.
The BBC said the majority of rockets landed either in the port area; or fell short into the bay, or overshot like the one which landed on an Arab neighbourhood near the port killing two inhabitants.
You are saying none of Hizbullah’s rockets could be fired what I understand would be around an extra 1km needed to hit central Haifa? And if the rockets did hit the port as the BBC said am I wrongly informed that there are many far more strategic sites such as the oil refinery, the naval docks etc?
I dont know about other chemical storage facilities. What sort of chemicals would kill hundreds or thousands at a distance? If there was such a vulnerable target in range that should be something an Israeli citizen would be allowed to talk about, given the fairly tight censorship of such things, or has that ended? You are sure the rockets landed close by?
I imagine Nasrallah was just playing tit-for-tat games with that warning to Haifa Arabs.
In any case the fact the ceasfire has started is far more important than any of this. Let us both pray it holds. Pax.
Roland,
Haifa is built on the northern slope of Mt. Carmel. The city is divided into three sections: the Upper “Carmel” section, the middle “Hadar” section and the Lower City or “Port” (Namal) section. The Panorama is located in the Carmel section of the city (not the center of town).
Most of the city’s industrial areas are located in the “Krayot”, that run between the Lower City and Acre. This is where most Hizballah missiles actually landed. Because this is an industrial area, there is not only an oil refinery, but also a variety of other industries that maintain storage facilities for a variety of chemicals, including amonia and other chemicals used mainly in the production of fertilizers and other civilian products that are highly toxic if released into the air. Most Israelis are well aware of this fact and of the fact that a massive release of many of these chemicals would cause devistation for the population of Haifa-Acre. There have been numerous reports published in the Israeli media for years on these facilities, and there have even been some small leaks, which were also publicized. I think it is reasonable to assume that the numerous rockets aimed at the Krayot were intended to hit either these storage tanks or simply to cause death and destruction in civilian neighborhoods. (It is worthwhile recalling the attempt by one of the Palestinian “militant” groups several years ago to detonate a bomb at the Pi Glilot LNG storage facilities near Tel Aviv which would, in most estimates, have resulted in the immediate incineration of between 5,000 and 10,000 innocent civilians.)
The fact that the BBC may have reported that rockets landed in the “Port” simply means that they landed in the Lower City. This does not mean that they landed anywhere near any military installations. It also means that they landed in what would be considered “central Haifa” or “downtown”, as opposed to the Carmel or one of the other suburbs.
Wadi Nas-Nas, where two Arab citizens were killed is not an “Arab” neighborhood. It is a mixed neighborhood in the Lower City with Jewish, Muslim and Christian civilians.
I would add that fully 25% of the rockets (that’s over 1,000) targeted Kiryat Shmona – hardly a military target – and that the majority of the rest clearly targeted Nahariya, Carmiel, Zefat and the towns and villages in between – again civilian targets. Of the longer range Khaibar-1 rockets (the name itself is telling!), most targeted the Afula and Beit She’an areas – again not strategic or military targets.
Again, I would remind you that Nasrallah clearly called on Arab citizens to leave Haifa, so I don’t think that Hizballah was really demonstrating “restraint” in relation to avoiding civilian casualties.
To the best of my knowledge, the only case of Hizballah rockets hitting what might be construed as a military target was the single rocket that killed 12 reservists in a staging area. Considering that Hizballah launched over 4,000 rockets over the past month, the fact that this is the only case involving military personnel indicates, to me, one of two things: either they actually targeted the soldiers, in which case the vast majority of the other attacks must have explicitly targeted civilians, or they accidently hit soldiers in one of 4,000+ apparently random salvos on Israel (a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions by any interpretation). I don’t think that it can be both.
This war has exposed, with undeniable clarity, the hypocrisy and self-deceipt of those who claim that “occupation of homelands” causes terrorism. Lebanon wasn’t occupied when Hezbollah began its rocket attacks. Nor has the evacuation of Gaza brought an end to HAMAS rocket attacks. The “Israel Unter Alles” party still needs to explain their answer to a guerrilla force that launches cross-border attacks from unoccupied land — that rejects the border itself – that rejects the authority of their own state’s elected leaders!
JES I am sorry it has taken some time for me to reply. I had to cross-check the information you supplied me with someone who knows the area, who was able to provide further perspective to your observations. I did this because the casualty statistics throughout the invasion simpy refused to match the picture of murderous terrorists trying to kill everyone, pitted against a precision-guided law-abiding army that was aiming to kill only them. Nor did reported damage in Israel match the type and volume of rockets fired against her if those rockets were aimed at all.
The implication that hizbullah was trying to release a toxic chemical cloud over Haifa is really quite unlikely. It was widely reported in Israel, and by Israeli arab reporters on Al-Jazeera, that the chemical plant had been emptied of its toxic chemicals in the first days of the war to prevent just such an eventuality. You must realise Nasrallah watches Al-Jazeera, so he knew this just like everyone in Israel.
Haifa has several built-up areas but the port area and Krayot are hardly among them. You do not seem to dispute that most of the rockets have fallen there. Rather you suggested this was a proxy chemical attack instead. The Bahai Gardens where the BBC have been located is a short distance up from the port, just below the Panorama (at the start of the Carmiel) in the heart of the residential slope that includes Hadar and Wadi Nisnas, which confirms the point that this area does not seem to have been considered a target by the BBC. The Carmiel is a sprawling, more recent urban centre on the slope on the other side of the ridge (covering a very large area indeed) and has not been targeted at all so far as I have been able to discover.
Regarding legitimate targets the port area and Krayot. You sound explicit, but are not being as explicit as is possible. There are understandably many more things in this area than you care to admit. It is impossible to make more than suppositions about what Hizbullah’s intentions are –you say you know two things: 1)Hizbullah is targeting civilians; and 2) in contradiction, that it is firing randomly. If Hizbullah is firing randomly, and indeed half or more of the rockets have landed on a few towns (which ones again?), then it has been very lucky in hitting several important military sites with the other rockets. You mentioned the Khaibar landed in the “Afula area” as though this means it was aimed at Afula. It wasn’t. It landed some distance from Afula. Israeli TV showed a fire in woodland. For all I know, and for all you are able to say it was again near a military site.
As I said previously I believe Nasrallah was just playing tit-for-tat games with that warning to Haifa Arabs. I do not take either sides comments in any war at face value.
The Lebanese border had been hot for some time, through the actions on both sides.
Here is the Al-Jazeera timeline, but there are others. Educated readers can do their own research as one always should on such matters.
Hizbullah has subtle differences to some disturbed pack of teenagers, several without passports, trying to blow up planes with doctored soda bottles. Hizbullah is a highly motivated militia that sometimes commits war crimes. How to stop them? Ideally, a tiny portion of the billions sent to Isarel to enable her to kill arab civilians could have been diverted to build up the regular Lebanese army, instead of invading and turning Hizbullah into national heroes. Gaza? How about a proper border? How about letting them start an infrastructure? Honestly, what strategy wouldn’t be better? What Israel has done with the IDF has not worked. If Israel wants lasting peace, the work of Taba should be completed in further negotiations.
Dershowitz has been roundly condemned for his construct that all occupations are caused by terrorists..just leaf through the pages of comments.
Roland,
First of all, your source has apparently mixed up the area of Haifa known as “The Carmel” – an area that is not that “recent” and is located on the northwestern slope of the Carmel – with the neighborhood of Tirat HaCarmel on the opposite (southwestern) slope of the Carmel.
The Carmel neighborhood is not densely populated, but the Hadar and Port (lower city) are very heavily populated. To say that “the port area and Krayot are hardly among” the heavily built up areas of Haifa is simply not true. They are both among the most heavily built up areas in the Greater Haifa Area and the Krayot, in particular, are among the most densely populated.
I will admit that I was unaware of the removal of toxic chemicals from the fertilizer plant, as I was out of the country at the beginning of the war. At any rate, I was only offering a suggestion and not making an assertion of Hizballah’s intent.
As to distances, well I’m not going to be a “spotter” for Hizballah on this forum, but suffice it to say that the distance from the Bahai Gardens to the closest point in the port itself is considerable, and significantly farther than, say, was the distance between those firing Qassams at Israel and the location on the beach in where the tragedy occurred recently. Further, the Krayot, even at their southern most point, are quite a few kilometers from the actual port, and Acre – a site of aboslutely no strategic importance since the time of Napoleon – is a full 22 kilometers from downtown Haifa. Whether or not BBC reporters considered their location a target is, I believe completely irrelevant, unless of course they were directing Hizballah fire.
Regarding Afula, I suggest that you re-read my post carefully. I stated that these rockets targeted the Afula and Bet She’an areas, and a number of the rockets in these barrages actually struck locations within the West Bank under the control of the PA close to the town of Jenin (I don’t suppose that Hizballah was targeting the PA!). I would suggest that the main purpose here was to make good on Nasrallah’s public threat to hit south of Haifa.
All this said, I don’t consider my knowledge of the geography of the area where I live to be the issue here. The fact of the matter is that nearly all of the rockets landed either in, or in close proximity to, civilian towns and villages. The “casualty statistics”, as you call them, reflect the fortunate fact that, despite the very large number of direct hits on civilian dwellings, most civilians either fled the areas or stayed in shelters as ordered by the Home Front Command.
Finally, I’m sure that you would agree that the firing of relatively inaccurate rockets – especially those armed with anti-personnel ordnance with a killing range of several hundred meters – in the manner and pattern used by Hizballah, certainly runs counter to the provisions of the rules of war. As HRW has stated:
preliminary information suggests that rockets fired by Hezbollah may be so inaccurate as to be incapable of being targeted, but are rather used to target a generalized area. As Human Rights Watch said in a 1997 report on Lebanon and Israel, “Katyushas are inaccurate weapons with an indiscriminate effect when fired into areas where civilians are concentrated. The use of such weapons in this manner is a blatant violation of international humanitarian law.”
JES. I sure you know what hizbullah’s targets are likely to be, and of course it was clear from the outset that you wouldn’t want to be a spotter for them attacking especially dangerous targets.
You are also right about what I would surely agree on. There were a number of war crimes in this confict. I’m not a lawyer and there are issues about imprecise weapons vs indiscrimate targetting covered by Johnathan Cook in his artice here. Personally I find any attack likely to cause civilian fatalities has to be genuinely unavoidable and as focused as possible on legitimate targets. This whole war was avoidable, the stated “causa belli” was most likely untrue, and in any case the prosecution of the war by Israel and the US was incompetent.
As for the rest perhaps people could look at scale maps of Haifa online (there are several)and pick carefully through the scattered reports of the attacks and casualties (there is even a port attack video). Now the war is hopefully over perhaps they can even visit.
Many thanks for the considerable care you took in your reply.