Here‘s Jazeera English’s report on the new PA cabinet list. Dr. Mahmoud Zahhar is, as was earlier predicted, the new Foreign Minister-designate. Which makes my recent interview with him all the more relevant.
Jazeera tells us that Ismail Haniya, the Hamas prime minister-designate, told a joint news conference on Sunday that:
- “I met Brother Abu Mazen (Abbas) and officially submitted to him the list of the cabinet”…
“The president is going to study the make-up of the government and its programme,” he said, adding that the atmosphere of the meeting had been “positive”.
The 24-member cabinet includes one woman and one Christian.
I wish Hamas had done a bit better on both those counts. Of course, the fact that the US and Israel mounted threats and other forms of pressure against many non-Hamas parties and individuals, in an attempt to have them not join a Hamas-led government, means that Haniya and Co. probably didn’t have a whole lot of qualified female or Christian ministrables to choose from.
Note: these transliterations of the names as used here are probably not definitive. Some of them look very weird to me. Including I am still convinced that Zahhar needs two “h”s.
“Of course, the fact that the US and Israel mounted threats and other forms of pressure against many non-Hamas parties and individuals, in an attempt to have them not join a Hamas-led government, means that Haniya and Co. probably didn’t have a whole lot of qualified female or Christian ministrables to choose from.”
Perhaps, but I think that the fact that Hamas is an explictly Islamic party has more to do with it.
I guess one can always blame America and Israel if one tries hard enough.
1.You are correct . Zahhar should have double h because the h in the Arabic word Zahhar is pronounced a stressed h . The same applies to the word Abbas i.e. double b.
2. The explanation suggested by Helena is more reasonable and realistic than that suggested by Joshua . Islamic states always used to have Christian , Jewish and female ministers . That is what any unbiased reading of Islamic history will conclude. Even the prophet Mohammad used a nonmuslim as his guide in his immigration from Mecca to Madina.
Actually anyone who followed the reaction of most Fatah leaders can not mistake the degree of shock and nervousness that they demonstrated since the sweeping victory of Hamas.
Actually, Hamas invited more than one Christian to join the cabinet, but for various reasons the invitees turned down the post. I can state with certainty that at least two other Christians were asked and refused. These are people I know personally. In addition, it is possible, though I do not know for sure, that at least one Christian woman was asked and declined. I heard this, but I cannot confirm it.
I strongly prefer a secular government over a religious one. However, when the secular government proves itself over and over again to be steeped in corruption, nepotism, cronyism, and opportunism, and when its members have more concern for their own interests than for the interests of the people, then a less corruptable religious government is certainly a better alternative.
Why can’t this thing remember my personal info?
Anyway … meanwhile … in a universe long ago and far away … gung ho idiots dept. presents:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0603180239mar18,1,7557291.story
“A whirlwind is coming, and hell is coming with it,” the Web site says, near a picture of Idema with his fists up and the title “Fighting Jack.”
Joshua wrote :
“I guess one can always blame America and Israel if one tries hard enough.”
Well the actual US government and that of Israel have breached so many international humanitary laws on the lands they are both occupying illegitimately, that there is no need to try hard. Almost every day the media are reporting about a new breaches by one or the other..
In the end the UN community managed to create the new Human Rights Council.. but guess who opposed ? the US, Israel and two tiny tiny island in the Pacific (Tuvalu and another whose name escapes me right now).. So if the reform of the Human right commission had failed.. who would have been guilty ? I won’t have to try hard to name the culprits.. (Of course, after Guantanamo, Abu Graib and the secret transfer of prisonners. Some in the US government may not want an effective commission).
New York invests in Israeli high-tech
JTA Breaking News, 20 Mar 2006
http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=1854
The state of New York’s pension fund will invest $100 million in Israeli high-tech companies. New York’s state comptroller, Alan Hevesi, made the announcement last week during a visit to Israel. The investment will bring the state’s pension fund total investment in Israel to more than $1 billion.
Joshua, once again you’re a source of amusement for me… Leaping head-first into a discussion with your partisan remarks, made on the basis of zero or almost-zero evidence…
All you can say is “I think” that the fact that Hamas is an explictly Islamic party has more to do with it.
At this point, why should people really care what “you think”? I was there. I wrote what I wrote about the threats, etc, based on the most solid evidence. (Shirin is writing from personal experience, too.)
This is a reality-based, evidence-based blog, Joshua,not an exploration into the wilder recesses of what passes for your “cognition”. If you want to sound off with partisan rants, etc, the blogosphere is open to you to start your own blog.
Hm, Joshua again in the guessing game. I prefer FACTS.
Note, Joshua does not deny Helena’s fact of immediate causation for the dearth of women candidates:”the US and Israel mounted threats and other forms of pressure against many non-Hamas parties and individuals.”
All students of discourse know a specific causative fact, undenied, has far more probability of truth than a remote generalization such as speculated by Joshua.
So more hot air from Joshua.
Excuse me for asking, but what part of the statement that Joshua referenced was based on evidence from having been there? US and Israeli “threats” – or actually pressure – weren’t exactly hidden and were very widely covered in the media (or at least what I have seen of the media). Further, I think that Hamas being an “explicitly Islamic party” does have some bearing on the fact that there don’t appear to be Christian women members (although I could be mistaken here).
What would be interesting to know – from those who have evidence – are the actual reasons that the Christian women turned down the offers of ministries. Was it because of explicit threats? Or were there other reasons? Perhaps Helena and Shirin can fill us in on these?
I heard the clear voicing of one very explicit threat, and indeed was asked specifically to pass it on to the person concerned. Yes, it was clearly a threat– not just “pressure”– and it sounded to me like the most violent kind of threat imaginable.
… In general, I just think the jejunely partisan, armchair theorizing of such as Joshua needs to be held up against the experience of those who have experience. That’s why this is a reality-based blog.
Hamas has supported female and Christian mayors in a number of towns and cities, so I’d say that charges of institutional mysogyny or anti-Christian bias are unfounded.
On the other hand, Hamas had a wider pool of both Christian and female candidates to draw from, even if only those in its own party are considered. There were several female MPs elected on the Change and Reform list, and at least two independent Christians elected with Hamas backing (somewhat like the Christian allies of Hizbullah?). Whatever the reason for not making these intra-party appointments, I’d guess that Israeli threats can safely be ruled out.
Amazing how the level of hostility has been ratched up here by Helena and her amen corner.
The fact that I was willing to give multiple factors consideration is evidence of an open mind. No one can seriously deny that Hamas is a strongly sectarian organization with an explicit islamist agenda. To say that recognizing this may be a factor is not hot air or wild speculation.
Helena talks about empiricism and experience. This experience largely consists of softball interviews followed by cheerleading entries.
Finally, you ask “At this point, why should people really care what “you think”?” Well Helena, I thought you did. After I told you that I preferred no longer to visit your site due to your personal attacks, you publicly asked me on Jonathan’s blog that I reconsider and come back. I took your invitation in good faith. My mistake.
As for Sherry’s experience, what experience?
Helena, you have a real thin skin. You make wild and unfounded accusations, repeatedly write partisan and one sided entries, and then make baseless personal attacks when someone points out that, gee, Israel may not be completely at fault here. If my attacks seem “partisan” it is only because the level of invective from you is directed at one side only. If you were, say, a Little Green Footballs type blogger, I’d have no problem calling you on your racism going the other way. But in the end, you are just a mirror image which is just as ugly and poisonous.
“That’s why this is a reality-based blog.”
I think you should change the motto of your blog to “I’m right and you’re not” [since “Informed Comment” is taken.]
talk about jejune…
Good point, Jonathan. I’d say that for people inside Hamas, threats could be presumed non-effective. For electoral allies, however, not self-evidently so.
So really that leaves a question why none of the six female Hamas MPs, or other non-MP Hamas women, were named to the cabinet. And as I say, I wish there had been more of them.
Just for the sake of a proper comparison , can anyone give us the composition of the Israeli cabinet . How many of the Israeli ministers are muslims , how many are christians , how many are jews and how many are atheists, etc. . I think that there are many Israeli citizens who are of Arabic or Palestinian origins and who are muslims or christians . Possibly this might be enlightening.
Hasan,
Arabs have never been represented in the highest levels of Israeli government.
There has been one Arab cabinet minister, whose tenure was short lived. He was appointed by none other than “war criminal Sharon.” Saleh Tarif, a Druze Arab and member of the Labor party, was appointed Minister Without Portfolio, with an “unofficial” portfolio of being in charge of Arab affairs.
Unfortunately, Tarif was convicted of corruption shortly thereafter, and then removed from office. It’s too bad, because he himself said that he wanted to be a role model which other Arab citizens could follow.
I will be the first to say that Israeli government has never brought in Arab MKs at the highest level. This is partly because the Arab parties have traditionally taken an antagonistic position toward the nature of the state, forming exclusively or nearly exclusively Arab parties. Nevertheless, there are some Arab MKs who have been elected through the Zionist parties, and those parties in my opinion do not do enough to advance the standing of those MKs. Although it was ironic that in this past Knesset, the Likud party had two Arab (Druze) MKs and Labor had none (until resignations brought in two who were lower on the list).
If I were a betting man, I would say that there will be one Arab minister in the next government, Mjallie Whbee is a sure bet for election on the Kadima list, and would have a decent shot at a ministerial spot if he wants it. If Labor joins a Kadima coaltion, then Nadyah Hilo may be put forth as one of their ministerial candidates (though that may be a stretch).
Majalli Whbee is Deputy Minister of Education. He is Druse.
In the 28th (Barak) government, Nawaf Massalha was Deputy Foreign Minister. I believe that he is a Muslim.
Not sure how many atheists there are, as belief in God tends to be a private matter.
Joshua,
I agree with you. Not enough has been done to promote Arab MKs (particularly from the mainstream parties). I did vote for Nadya in the primaries, and I feel that she is fully qualified to get a ministry.
JES,
Can’t be! You’re supposed to be a “necon Ziofacist Likudnik” not a Labor voter!
I’m glad Nadia got the spot, particularly because she got it without relying on the reserved Arab spot (although she was bumped up to one of the woman’s spots).
I would really like to see Labor get to 20 seats, so they could then have 3 Arab MKs as part of their delegation. I have the nagging feeling that they will fall short and be left with just one.
But apparently my cognitive skills are in question, so don’t trust me on that.
There are currently no non-Jewish ministers in Israel, which is a failing in the Israeli government. I agree that Israel hasn’t done well in appointing minorities to the cabinet.
Whbee might get a ministry in the next government, depending on how many portfolios Kadima keeps for itself. Nadia Hilou (who is Catholic) deserves a portfolio and will probably get one eventually, but not in her first term.
There have been Arab deputy ministers since the 1970s. The first was Abdul-Aziz Zoabi, who was appointed Deputy Minister of Health on May 24, 1971 and who I’m fairly sure was Muslim. (He’s from Nazareth, but the Zoabis are a Muslim family.) Jabr Moade, who also got a deputy portfolio in 1971, was Druze.
To lump Druze in with generic Arabs is crass. They have been Jewish auxiliaries since year one, and indeed ‘plus royaliste que le roi’. For a period, the leftist Lebanese Druze under Walid Jumblatt managed to carve out a brief oppositional niche, but even at that time, it had little impact on Israeli Druze.
The Druze community has professed loyalty to Israel since its inception. The Druze leadership also insisted that their communities partake in mandatory army service, as opposed to voluntary service.
Given this, it is not surprising that the Druze Arabs are often the ones who have advanced further in Israeli society. What’s crass about that?
You seem to think that the only “good Arab” is one that expresses opposition to Israel.
The Druze, and also the Circassians, are in a different political and social position from other non-Jewish Israeli citizens. For that matter, the various Christian communities, the Negev Bedouins and other “minorities within the minority” also have distinct interests. It would be a mistake to think of Israel’s non-Jews as any more monolithic than the Jews.
Hasan’s question, though, was addressed to all non-Jews in Israeli politics, so Druze ministers are relevant to the answer.
Given this, it is not surprising that the Druze Arabs are often the ones who have advanced further in Israeli society.
Except they haven’t really. The Druze have done well in the Knesset, especially since they became prominent in the Likud. In the senior civil service and the courts, though, most of the Arab representation is either Christian or urban middle-class Muslim. The two Arab Supreme Court justices, for instance, consisted of one Muslim and one Christian, and Interior Ministry director-general Oscar Abu-Razek is Christian. The difference is primarily due to levels of education.
Thanks for all who responded to my question. Just to keep our comparisons limited to the point at issue, we should concentrate on the representativeness (even symbolic) of different ethnicities and religions in the cabinet whether it is the Palestinian or Israeli cabinet. At least that was the point that commentators discussed. So we are not discussing the number of MBs or MKs. Possibly comparison will be more illuminating if we considered the percentage of the muslims or christians to the total population of the Israeli citizens and whether this percentage is reflected in the cabinet . This should also apply in the case of the Palestinians i.e what is the % of the christians among the palestinian population and % of their representation in the coming cabinet.
Regarding “the war criminal Sharon” , I should say that no one said that a war criminal is a stupid person . Actually most war criminals are intelligent and Sharon was certainly not stupid but rather a cunning person . Possibly appointing a corrupt Arab as minister for Arab Affairs and to be a role model is a manifestation of his intelligence.
So we have one cabinet minister of Palestinian origins in the whole history of Israel and he was cabinet minister in charge of Arab affairs. I’m honestly not sure whether the christian Palestinian minister is in charge of Palestian Christian affairs or not but i’ll be greatly disappointed if this is true.
Regarding the explanations given :
” This is partly because the Arab parties have traditionally taken an antagonistic position toward the nature of the state”
I’m not sure about the correctness of this statement but if I accept it , it immediately reminds me of your first comment (Joshua) when you said :
“I guess one can always blame America and Israel if one tries hard enough.” . It looks similar to saying :
” I guess one can always blame Arabs and Palestinians if one tries hard enough “.
The second explanation given was that said by JES and Jonathan :
“Not enough has been done to promote Arab MKs “.
Unfortunately , this explanation is not enough since it does not tell us why ” not enough has been done ” . Are they religious reasons or purely political.
Joshua,
Can’t be! You’re supposed to be a “necon Ziofacist Likudnik” not a Labor voter!
I was raised by parents who were members of Hashomer Hatzair (although toward the end of their lives they became Labour Zionists) and I am a proud member of the Labour Party. I am optimistic. Peretz if very charismatic and the Labour Party is the only party that is running a positive campaign this time around. Look for a positive surpise in my view – maybe even 21 or 22 seats.
Jonathan,
I think that one of the most important reasons for Druze advancement in mainstream parties in the Knesset has to do with their attainment of senior ranks in the IDF.
By the way, over the past few years there has been a dramatic rise in the number of non-Beduin, non-Circassian Muslim volunteers in the army, although this has not been publicized much due to the negative reactions of their families.
Hasan,
Actually most war criminals are intelligent and Sharon was certainly not stupid but rather a cunning person . Possibly appointing a corrupt Arab as minister for Arab Affairs and to be a role model is a manifestation of his intelligence.
Definitely. Perhaps this explains why Arafat appointed a member of Neturei Karta (I forgot his name) as Minister of Jewish Affairs in the PA!
This should also apply in the case of the Palestinians i.e what is the % of the christians among the palestinian population and % of their representation in the coming cabinet.
Estimates vary, but the figure I’ve seen most often is 2 to 3 percent. One Christian representative in a 24-member Palestinian cabinet is therefore proportional.
Possibly appointing a corrupt Arab as minister for Arab Affairs and to be a role model is a manifestation of [Sharon’s] intelligence.
Actually, even though Salah Tarif was formally appointed by Sharon, he was the choice of the Avoda (Labor) Party, which at the time was part of a national unity government. Under the Israeli system, the ruling party’s coalition partners make their own nominations for the portfolios they are assigned, and while these nominations are subject to the prime minister’s approval, they are almost always confirmed. Tarif was named because he was an influential power broker within Avoda and it was seen as his turn to become a minister.
‘m honestly not sure whether the christian Palestinian minister is in charge of Palestian Christian affairs or not but i’ll be greatly disappointed if this is true.
Unfortunately I haven’t seen the full cabinet list anywhere, so I don’t know who the Christian minister is or what portfolio he has been assigned. I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if the female and Christian ministers were appointed to women’s-affairs and Christian-affairs portfolios, because that’s what tends to happen when symbolic minority representatives are appointed to cabinets. There are many, many countries that have one female minister who holds a women’s-affairs portfolio (although, to your country’s credit, this is not the case there).
This isn’t entirely a bad thing – it gives members of minority communities a specific minister they can go to with their concerns. However, minorities are not fully integrated into the political system until they are eligible for appointment to all positions.
Unfortunately , this explanation is not enough since it does not tell us why ” not enough has been done ” . Are they religious reasons or purely political.
I don’t think religion has played a significant part in the failure to promote Arab ministers. In my estimation, the reason is threefold:
First, the majority of Arab MKs since the 1980s have belonged to parties that reject the concept of Israel as a Jewish state. This position, while understandable, has made those parties politically unacceptable as coalition partners (although their members have sometimes held influential committee positions or deputy speakerships).
Second, the system by which the large parties choose their Knesset candidates prevents many Arabs from getting the experience necessary to qualify for a portfolio. The minority seat in the Likud, for instance, is one of the seats reserved for newcomers, with the result that most non-Jewish Likud MKs serve only one term. The Arab and Druze reserved seats in Avoda are eligible for re-election, but (1) those seats aren’t always high enough on the list to be elected, and (2) their occupancy often changes due to shifting political alliances within the minority communities. Ministers are usually chosen from the top 10 names on any party list, who are tend to be senior figures who have been in the Knesset forever, and Arabs aren’t yet a big enough constituency in any of the major parties to win those seats.
There are signs this might be changing, especially since Arabs are now about 20 percent of the Avoda membership. As others have mentioned, Nadia Hilou was elected to a relatively high position on the Avoda list and might hang around long enough to get a ministry. Also, if Avoda gets 19 seats next week, Raleb Majadele will win a second term and might eventually be in line for a portfolio. But it has taken a while for Arabs to build up this level of support and continuity.
And the third reason, the elephant in the room, is institutional racism. I don’t think racism has played as large a role in the paucity of non-Jewish ministers as many people believe, but it has played some part. This is the factor that must be eliminated.
Hasan,
It’s fair to say that the religous, ethnic and and political issues overlap in this case. Warning, the discussion below is probably more than you want to read about. But take what you wish from it.
In the case of the Arab parties, these parties have taken a platform which explicitly opposes the existance of Israel as a Jewish state. It would be difficult for even the most accomodating governing party to include them in a coaltion.
In 1999, when Ehud Barak won the presidency, he was opposed not only by Bibi Netanhahu but by Azmi Bishara of the Arab Balad party. There was pressure in some sectors of the Arab community not to support Bishara and to hold one’s nose and vote for Barak, beacause they felt the stakes were too high. At that time, Israel elected its president separately from the Knesset, and the concern was that Bishara would siphon off enough from Barak to throw the election to Netenyahu. Many Arab voters felt that as a result, they should have been rewarded by bringing Arab parties into the governing coaltion, including a ministerial portfolio. And they were upset when they didn’t get one. Barak apparently felt that it would be too controversial to invite an explictly anti-Zionist party into the coaltion. This was too bad in my opinion, because it could have been a historic opportunity to integrate the parties into the government. At the same time, the ideological divide would be hard to bridge.
With respect to the Arabs who support the Zionist parties themselves. My feeling is that the failure to give a cabinet position is reflective of the general reasons Arabs have had trouble advancing in Israeli society. The differences can partly be attributed to prejudice and distrust. Some of it may be religiously based, some of it may be based on ethnic prejudice, and then some may be based on political disagreements in which a minority tends to lose out. So as a result, you don’t have too many Arabs getting placed in the Knesset through the Zionist parties, and those that do haven’t advanced as far as the cabinet positions.
Several parties, in their nomination process, reserve spots for minorities or other underrepresented groups to ensure diversity in their Knesset makeup. Labor has for some time reserved at least one spot for an Arab MK, usually around number 20 on the list. This year, Labor has reserved its 19th spot for an Arab MK. and the 20th spot for a Druze MK. As was noted above, Labor’s primary this year was noteworthy because an Arab MK, Nadyah Hilo, received the 15th spot without needing to resort to one of the “Arab spots.” She was advanced on the list in another way, since the 15th spot was reserved for a woman. As the female candidate receiving the 4th highest amount of votes, she was advanced to 15 on the list (this year, Labor is reserving spots 5, 9, 12 and 15 for female candidates).
So if Labor can get 20 seats, they would have 3 Arab members in the delegation. The current polls indicate that they may fall short. In all likelihood Labor will get at least the 15th seat, which will get Hilo in the Knesset. Numbers 19 and 20 are going to be a close call.
One other thing. Hilo will be only the 2nd Arab female elected to the Knesset. The first, Hussinya Jabara, was elected on the list of the leftist Zionist Meretz party in 1999. No Arab party has ever placed an Arab female in a position on their list to give them a reasonable chance of getting elected (The Hadash party did have a Jewish female, Tamar Gozansky, serving in the Knesset). This has always caused some discontent among women supporters of the Arab parties, and with Hilo’s placement on the Labor list, such discontent has been brought to the forefront.
In 1999, when Ehud Barak won the presidency
Surely you mean “the premiership.”
Many Arab voters felt that as a result, they should have been rewarded by bringing Arab parties into the governing coaltion, including a ministerial portfolio. And they were upset when they didn’t get one.
It actually goes back further than that. For most of the second Rabin administration, there was a minority government and Rabin stayed in office with the help of the Arab parties. They were able to win some policy concessions – for instance, spending on the Arab sector doubled during that period and an Arab deputy minister was appointed – but they weren’t officially invited to join the coalition. That caused a good deal of resentment at the time.
Some of it may be religiously based, some of it may be based on ethnic prejudice, and then some may be based on political disagreements in which a minority tends to lose out.
And part of it is simply electoral dynamics. All the major parties (except Kadima which hasn’t yet developed party institutions), as well as most of the smaller ones, choose their candidates through primaries or central committee votes. In order to get a position near the top of the list – i.e., one of the positions from which ministries get filled – candidates need the support of a big voting bloc. To date, Arabs haven’t been a big enough constituency within any major party to win these seats. Instead, they come in through the reserved seats, which are lower on the list and which tend to change occupants every election or two.
One reason why Nadia Hilou’s election is such an encouraging sign is that she isn’t in a reserved Arab seat, meaning she won her place on the list with Jewish support. This means that she has the political base to get an even higher slot on the next list, which would put her in line for a portfolio. Hopefully this will happen, because she richly deserves one.
One other thing. Hilo will be only the 2nd Arab female elected to the Knesset.
Unfortunately, it’s always harder for those who are both women and minorities.
Jonathan,
I understand what you are saying about electoral dynamics. If Israel’s Arab citizens were monolithic and voted in big numbers, they could control a large share of the Knesset.
At the same time, an Arab should not have to rely only on other Arabs to get elected. My point is that the various electoral blocs in the parties should be more inclusive of Arabs.
Joshua,
Once again, I am curious to know exactly what point you think you are making by insisting upon addressing me by a name other than the one I use here. The point is lost on me, I admit, and it probably seems even more pointless to others here.
As for “what experience”, it should be clear that the experience Helena was referring to in this particular case is personal knowledge as a result of contact with the two Christian males I mentioned. I am acquainted with both of them, and one is a close friend of many years.
At the same time, an Arab should not have to rely only on other Arabs to get elected. My point is that the various electoral blocs in the parties should be more inclusive of Arabs.
I agree. They should also be more inclusive of Ethiopians, Mizrahim, women and other underrepresented groups. The thing is that clientelistic voting patterns are very strong in Israel – not only among Arabs but throughout the country – and given the way political power is distributed, Arabs tend to be the clients of Jewish politicians rather than vice versa.
This means that non-Jews who were good at working the system, like Salah Tarif and Ayoub Kara, acquired bargaining power by building up clienteles within their own communities, but couldn’t expand their support to the degree necessary to reach the top levels. Again, this is one reason why Nadia Hilou’s candidacy (and Issawi Freij’s abortive Meretz candidacy in 2003) are so important, because she is expanding her base outside the middle-class Jaffa Christians who are her home constituency.
Jonathan,
Speaking of which, what ended up happening to Ayoob Kara? You’d think that after being such a shill for Netenyahu and the Gaza settlers, they would’ve given him a decent Knesset list spot. I heard he was even considering jumping to one of the far right parties. Kind of tough, because most of the people in the party probably think he should leave the country (although they may be willing to keep the Druze).
Sherry,
I address you as Sherry because it is your actual name and you insisted in the past that you weren’t bothered by it. I don’t have a problem with nicknames, although in some cases the use of “Shirin” may have misled some people into thinking you actually were Iraqi or actually spoke Arabic. I know you weren’t trying to deceive people, but it could be confusing.
As for the experience, I’m just wondering if these people you know are like the “Iraqi friends” you claimed you knew in the past.
Speaking of which, what ended up happening to Ayoob Kara? You’d think that after being such a shill for Netenyahu and the Gaza settlers, they would’ve given him a decent Knesset list spot.
Ayoub Kara is living proof that one need not be Jewish to be a right-wing Israeli nut. The man quotes Jabotinsky, for heaven’s sake! Granted, his politics are more complicated than they first appear – he frequently complains that the Druze suffer discrimination, he’s an Israeli nationalist without being a Zionist, and he has some genuine causes such as disability rights and the environment – but he definitely belongs to the right-wing fringe.
Unfortunately for those who find Kara’s flamboyant populism entertaining, he won’t be with us in the next Knesset. He did badly in the Likud primaries and got a slot in the 40s, and although he was thinking of jumping over to Herut, he never did so. My guess is that he’ll trade the right-wing rhetoric for garden-variety populism and try to make a comeback in 2010… with Kadima.
Actually, Hamas invited more than one Christian to join the cabinet, but for various reasons the invitees turned down the post. I can state with certainty that at least two other Christians were asked and refused. These are people I know personally.
Shirin, can you name them?
Thanks once more for the useful information.
1. It is true that my early question concerned all non-Jew Israeli citizens. This includes the Druze, of course. It is not realistic that a PM would choose in his cabinet a person who wants to destroy the state. It does not make sense. Appointing a minister who opposes certain policies of the majority party or of the PM is something different, however.
2. Regarding JES’s response to my comment about “the war criminal Sharon”. I was just responding to what Joshua wrote when he used parentheses as above. I meant only to say that being regarded by pro-Palestinians or others as war criminal is one thing and that Sharon accepted the nomination of an Arab as a cabinet minister is another thing. Both things are not contradictory in my opinion at least. That Arafat nominated a member of Nuturei Karta as a minister for Jewish affairs in the PA looks surreal. Arafat did not have Jews under his authority to nominate such a minister to take care of their affairs. Maybe he meant him to coordinate relations with Jews in the Diaspora or with Jews who support the Palestinian cause. Sharon’s position is different since there are 1 million or more Israelis of Arab origin and it would be realistic if he appointed one or more Arab ministers in his cabinet. This point, however, was not the main point of the discussion.
3. The responses of Joshua and Jonathan Edelstein indicate that religion does not play the most important or significant single factor in the choice of cabinet ministers. This brings me back to my first comment on the first comment of Joshua when he said
“I think that the fact that Hamas is an explicitly Islamic party has more to do with it”.
There is nothing in Islamic teachings that prevent incorporating non-muslim citizens in running the affairs of the state but again religious factors should only be a minor factor in the choice of people who occupy leading positions. Objective factors should predominate and I believe Hamas is a more pragmatic movement than most consider. There are times when people get involved in strenuous endeavors to answer questions when their first task should be to ask “ Is this question a proper question to ask in the first place or is there something wrong with the question”. This question of how many Christians or females are appropriate as representative in a cabinet is an example of such wrong questions. If people feel that they are living in a state which ensures justice and fairness to its citizens, then the question of who is the minister become less important.
4. This leads me to my last point. That of the refusal of the Arab Israeli parties to the concept of a “Jewish State”. My understanding is that they do not refuse the existence of Israel and consider themselves as citizens of the state of Israel. They refuse the title of “Jewish State” because they believe that this undermines their equal rights with the Jewish citizens. I think that they have a reasonable point here and this leads us to the question of justice and equality of all citizens in the Israeli state.
Sorry, I am in a hurry and should type quickly and I have to curtail my comments.
This question of how many Christians or females are appropriate as representative in a cabinet is an example of such wrong questions. If people feel that they are living in a state which ensures justice and fairness to its citizens, then the question of who is the minister become less important.
But isn’t it one of the attributes of a fair and just state to include the entire population in making political decisions? A government in which everyone is represented is more likely to enjoy the confidence of the public and less likely to ignore the interests of less powerful groups, not to mention that representation is part of the way states respect the citizenship of minorities. This is why it’s wrong that Israel has so few Arab ministers, or the PA so few female ministers.
My understanding is that [the Arab parties] do not refuse the existence of Israel and consider themselves as citizens of the state of Israel. They refuse the title of “Jewish State” because they believe that this undermines their equal rights with the Jewish citizens.
That leads to the question of exactly what a “Jewish state” means, which is a discussion in itself and is far from the topic of the main post. Some Zionist parties, such as Meretz, believe that Israel should be both a Jewish state and a state of all its citizens, and that the two are compatible. Others, such as the National Union, obviously don’t. But the key conceptual difficulty with the Arab parties is not that they want Israel to be a state of all its citizens – after all, so does Meretz, which has been part of at least one government – but that they believe it can’t also be Jewish. If any of them took the position of Meretz, then their inclusion in the government probably wouldn’t be controversial among any but the right-wing nuts.
Just a note about the Naturei Karta Rabbi. My understanding is that he was eager to volunteer to be a Minister in the PA as a mark of NK’s longstanding, religion-based, anti-Zionist stand. And Yasser Arafat just loved the idea, thinking it such a clever little plan (though it meant just about nothing in reality, like many of his clever little plans.)
I see the Hamas government list has no “Minister for Jewish Affairs”. There is a Minister for Women’s Affairs. It’s the woman: Miryam Saleh. I’m thinking the Christian is probably Tannas Abu Ita, Min. of Tourism. But once again, this list (which is on a pro-Change&Reform website out of the UK) doesn’t seem to have adequate transliterations, so getting those established might take a few more days.
Back when I was working for Reuters in Beirut in the 70s we used to work hard to get authoritative, consistent, and appropriate transliterations of names out from the get-go– especially on something official like a government list. There, we often had problems between the French and the English transliterating styles. In Palestine there should be no such problem… So what’s the problem there?
Just a note about the Naturei Karta Rabbi [Moshe Hirsch]. My understanding is that he was eager to volunteer to be a Minister in the PA as a mark of NK’s longstanding, religion-based, anti-Zionist stand. And Yasser Arafat just loved the idea, thinking it such a clever little plan
I’m not sure Arafat ever actually appointed him, though. He liked to call himself the Minister of Jewish Affairs (and even had letterhead!) but I’ve never seen his name on a PA cabinet list, and I don’t believe his “appointment” was ever confirmed by the PLC. I wonder if he was an “honorary minister” in the same way that some countries appoint honorary consuls.
I see the Hamas government list has no “Minister for Jewish Affairs…” I’m thinking the Christian is probably Tannas Abu Ita, Min. of Tourism.
That’s my guess too; the Abu Eitas are an Orthodox family in Bethlehem. Arafat’s tourism minister was also an Abu Eita, although I’m not sure if he was the same person.
That’s a bit surprising – I’d have guessed that Hossam al-Taweel would be the Christian minister, but maybe he declined (or maybe Haniyeh preferred to appoint a Christian from the West Bank).
BTW, thanks for finding and posting the list.
Tannas Abu Eita, also Sami George Abu Eita (or Abu Aiteh, depending on the document), was an independent candidate from Bethlehem and is, indeed, a Christian. He isn’t the same person as the former tourism minister – that was Mitri Abu Eita – but he’s from the same family. He wasn’t elected (in fact he came 21st) but evidently Hamas wanted to reward him and he was willing to take the job.
BTW, is she this Maryam Saleh?
Joshua,
Thank you for revealing so clearly your rather pathetic purpose for addressing me here as you do. In so doing you have proven something very important about yourself.
While you may prefer to make me the subject of the discussion, I prefer to discuss the issues. Therefore this is the last mention I will make of your silly ad hominems.
From now on please address me here as Shirin, or do not address me at all.
Davis,
I am sorry, but I cannot name them publicly without their permission, which I do not believe they would give me. I can tell you that one of them – my good and long-term friend – is a 1948 refugee. The other was born and grew up in the West Bank. Both are very intelligent, highly educated and capable individuals.
If you choose to take what I have said with a grain of salt, I certainly do not blame you, but I cannot give you more information than I have.
“I’m thinking the Christian is probably Tannas Abu Ita, Min. of Tourism.”
That is correct, Helena. He is from Bethlehem.
It really should be called the an-Najah Cabinet. There are at least four ministers from the Najah faculty – Omar Abdul Razek, Samir Abu Eisheh, Nasir Shaer and Ahmad al-Khalidi (the last of whom was among the drafters of the proposed Palestinian constitution). There are also at least two from the Islamic University of Gaza (Jamal al-Khodari and Atef Odwan) and I believe Maryam Saleh is from al-Quds.
Haniyeh seems to have raided the universities. He also picked quite a few ministers from outside Hamas and outside the PLC. At a guess, he seems to be going for a mostly technocratic government.
Shirin,
If you are changing your mind and you want to be addressed by a “handle” then that’s fine with me.
I’m surprised at your accusation, since all of your posts here are largely ad hominems and insults.
Miryam, Maryam, Mariam…. yes, certainly all the same name in Arabic– which is an indication of why getting good, authorittative transliterations distributed a.s.a.p. is a good idea.
Haniyeh seems to have raided the universities. He also picked quite a few ministers from outside Hamas and outside the PLC. At a guess, he seems to be going for a mostly technocratic government.
Yes. He has made an overt effort to place a large number of professional “technocrats”, rather than politicians in the Cabinet. I wish that Israel would do the same!
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C5618939-BE93-45C2-9C4D-61AE819CE62E.htm
The 24-member cabinet is made up mostly of Hamas members, and includes one woman and one Christian.
Moderate parties had been pressured by the US to shun an administration led by Hamas, which has rejected demands to recognise Israel, renounce violence and accept interim peace accords – conditions for continued Western aid.
Hamas, which eclipsed the long-dominant Fatah faction in the January 25 elections, completed its cabinet just over a week before Israel’s own general election on March 28.
Abbas said before meeting Haniyeh that parliament would convene soon for a vote of confidence in the new government.
Here is the list of the Hamas cabinet members:
• Ismail Haniyeh: prime minister and minister of youth and sports
• Mahmoud al-Zahar: minister of foreign affairs
• Nasser al-Shaer: deputy prime minister and minister of education and higher education
• Said Siyam: minister of interior and civil affairs
• Omar Abdel Razzaq: minister of finance
• Alaa al-Araj: minister of economy
• Bassem Naim: minister of health
• Fakhri Turkman: minister of social affairs
• Tareq Abu Arafa: minister of Jerusalem affairs
• Tannas Abu Eita: minister of tourism
• Ahmed al-Khalidi: minister of justice
• Ziad al-Zaza: minister of public works and housing
• Mohammed al-Agha: minister of agriculture
• Nayef al-Rajoub: minister of Waqf and religious affairs
• Samir Abu Eisha: minister of planning
• Jamal al-Khudari: minister of communications, technology and IT
• Abdelrahman Zeidan: minister of transportation
• Mariam Saleh: minister of women’s affairs
• Attallah Abu al-Sibbah: minister of culture
• Yussef Ruzqa: minister of information
• Wasfi Kabaha: minister of prisoners
• Issa al-Jaabari: minister of local government
• Mohammed al-Barghouthi: minister of labor
• Atef Udwan: minister of state
• Mohammed Awad: cabinet secretary
PS Zahhar is written in the above report (english.aljazeera.net) with a single H but definitly this is wrong .
——————-
More details in Arabic here :
تشكيلة الحكومة الفلسطينية برئاسة هنية
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/32E680D6-38CB-405C-8A3B-2F7AD09209DB.htm
———————-
More dtails about Haniyah in Arabic here :
تشكيلة الحكومة الفلسطينية برئاسة هنية
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/32E680D6-38CB-405C-8A3B-2F7AD09209DB.htm
————————
Success has its enemies but all these enemies !! This is really unfair
وفد حماس في البحرين ومسؤول بفتح يهاجم حكومة هنية
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1971AAF2-071B-4466-BF95-2EBF415A5EF1.htm
Talking of transliteration, I have a feeling that half baked “phonetic” double vowels are spoiling the appearance of transliterated Arabic recently. These spellings, possibly borrowed from the transliteration of the languages of the Indian subcontinent, include “ay” instead of the older “ei” (for instance, “shaykh” instead of “sheikh”), and “ee” and “oo” for “i” and “u”.
My discussion of the cabinet here, if anyone’s interested.
Maryam Saleh is definitely the al-Quds lecturer and is also one of the six female Hamas MPs; she was number 12 on the national list. Abu Eita is, if I’m not mistaken, the owner of the Paradise Hotel in Bethlehem and the brother of the former Fatah tourism minister. (He’s not the only minister with a Fatah brother; Nayef al-Rajoub’s brother is Jibril Rajoub and they ran against each other in the elections.)
Overall, it seems a remarkably competent government, especially in comparison to the many countries where cabinets are drawn exclusively from the legislature and the directors-general do all the real work. I also expect that an-Najah University will become a very important unofficial policy think tank, given that four and possibly five ministers are drawn from its faculty. Najah might be the place to look for policy cues in the future, especially with respect to economic and development issues.
Also, the new planning minister, Samir Abu Eisheh (from Najah as it happens), has drafted proposals to link the Palestinian infrastructure to Jordan and Egypt. This may support what you heard earlier from Zahhar about Hamas’ plans to link the Palestinian economy to the Arab world, which would overall be a very smart move.
One apparent surprise is that Mazen Sinukrot didn’t retain the economy portfolio, as many sources were predicting he would do. Instead, it went to a Hamas loyalist who is secretary of the Gaza engineers’ syndicate. Surprisingly enough, he seems to be the only minister drawn from the professional syndicates and chambers of commerce, which, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Arab world, have been political incubators and focuses of opposition. Evidently Haniyeh, who is a former professor himself, prefers to draw from the universities.
I’d say that if Zahhar is correct about Hamas’ plans to do little or nothing on the diplomatic front but rebuild the economy and realign it toward the Arab world, they couldn’t have picked a better cabinet. I would hope that Hamas will eventually change its mind about diplomatic initiatives, possibly when the West Bank withdrawals start happening, but I can’t tell them what to do.
To follow up on hasan’s inquiry. There is an article in today’s Haaretz regarding the Kadima party’s election list.
When Sharon first formed Kadima, there were reports that he was meeting from leaders of Israel’s Islamic movement with respect to positions on his party’s list. When the list came out, however, there was only one non Jewish candidate, Mjallie Whbee (a Druze Arab and long time confidante to Sharon), in a realistic spot on the list. Another friend of Sharon, Ahmed Dabah, is on the list in spot number 51 (which, barring a shocking Kadima performance, will not get him into the Knesset).
What happened? The Kadima party later took some polls to determine what the effect would be if it placed an Arab candidate in a high spot on the list. The results showed that the Kadima party would lose several seats, and that they would not appreciably gain any additional votes from the Arab electorate to compensate.
So the lack of Arab MKs on the list seems to be the result of a very cynical political calculation. I am nevertheless disappointed, because I think in the long term, it would have benefitted both the party and the country (I’m also disappointed that the electorate would react that way). It’s not that I’m even a Kadima supporter (If I was in Israel, I would probably vote for Labor this time around), but I recognize that it will be the leading vote getter, and I would have liked to see it have a more diverse election slate.
I also have to wonder if things would have turned out the same way if Sharon was still leading the party. This is not because I think Sharon was a diversity loving guy, but because I think that he would not be so quick to drop what he was looking to do in the face of a few opinion polls.
So the lack of Arab MKs on the list seems to be the result of a very cynical political calculation.
Also a very dumb one. The number of voters who say “I’ll vote this way if party X does Y,” where Y is a hypothetical course of action, is very rarely matched by the number who actually change their mind if Party X goes ahead and does it. Netanyahu’s surveys said that the Likud would gain six seats if it switched from a central-committee candidate selection system to a primary system, but when he pushed through the change, nothing happened to Likud’s poll standing.
The decision not to put an Arab candidate in a viable place might not have been racist as such, but it was shortsighted and politically stupid. Hopefully Avoda will make a strong showing and be able to put a stop to such things.
Tzipi Livni has already admitted that it was a mistake.
I mean, do you really think people are going to en masse refuse to vote for a party if they had Arab candidates at, say, 25, 30 and 35 on the list?