Iraq open thread #8

Dear JWN commenters– I’m off to my Quaker retreat and hope you may have some informative, courteous discussions here while I’m away. Back Sunday afternoon. Ommmm. (Not quite the right religion but I expect you get my drift.)

20 thoughts on “Iraq open thread #8”

  1. That’s AUM.
    or AUM Shanthie if you like
    Shanthie meaning “peace”. Also, my wife’s name.
    Have a peaceful time.

  3. Check out Joseph Galloway’s article on the broken army:
    http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12884423.htm
    He gives a chilling description of the way the Chiefs plan to beef up combat strength without adding headcount or increasing the budget:
    “It’s a brilliant capitalist stroke worthy of a cold-blooded CEO. We’ll hire civilians who like to be paid low civil service wages to replace military people who treat and nurse the wounded coming home from Iraq; replace those who handle payroll issues for other soldiers; replace those who do a thousand crappy jobs well because they know that what they do is important to other soldiers. Then we can ship the “savings” off to Iraq or some other pre-emptive war.”

  5. John C:
    Thanks for the Cockburn article reference. It is indeed an outstanding “tour de horizon.”
    Can I add the following tragic comment from Abu Kahleel, in my view the wisest and most literate of Iraqi bloggers. He lives in Baghdad but owns a large farm somewhere outside.
    “My farm is now a deserted piece of land. Lack of irrigation water and electricity was the minor part of the problem. All my share croppers (27 families at one time) have now left… except for one family. Part of my 70 year old date-palm-and-orange orchard has been burned down. One old hand, a man of 70 who was more like a trusted friend really, has been savagely killed by being beaten with rifle butts.
    I nowadays go frequently there, but not for agrarian purposes! I apologize for not writing back to you and to the many others who have written to me. I am immersed full time in preventing sectarian strife locally. I have always believed that the best option for me is to operate in an environment where people trust my intentions and listen to my words. And this is what I am doing full time at the moment… and I mean full time! This, I believe is the only available course. If everyone defends his little corner, then and only then there may be some chance of limiting the damage being done to this country by a wide assortment of powerful, resourceful and well funded powers.
    What is happening on the ground in Iraq both in the cities and in the countryside is almost unbelievable. If I write about what is actually taking place, even you would start doubting my credibility.”
    Go back to the start of his Blog, see his optimism, his hope that commonsense and realism was possible!

  7. I have a suggestion for discussion. The Iraqi Constitution: Will it pass and is its passage a good or bad thing for Iraq? I am going to go far out on a limb and venture that Anbar, Salah al-Din and, just barely, Ninevah will all fall to “no” resulting in a rejection of the constitution, presupposing a lack of outright election fraud. I, furthermore, am going to venture that this is a good thing. It is critical, at this point, for the Sunni Arabs to have a sense of enfranchisement, that they have some say in the course of the country, and demonstrating that they can reject the constitution that they, on the whole, loathe so, will inspire a great many of them to take a greater interest in forming the next government to write a better one. I think this outweighs the risk, as stateded by Juan Cole, of Shi’a or Kurd disillusionment resulting from having to go back to the drawing board.

  8. Shochu John,‎
    ‎Anbar, Salah al-Din and, just barely, Ninevah will all fall to “no” resulting in a ‎rejection of the constitution,‎
    I don’t know how you make it, till now the US troops bombing Al-Kae’em, and other ‎towns in the west of Iraq, people displaced from their districts, more peoples arrested ‎‎“200 in Baji in Salah al-Din” in rides by what reported Iraqi Army, no power in ‎Musle and Baghdad for last two days or more because the terrorist destroyed the main ‎power lines between Kirkuk and Baji make Baghdad and Musel live under dark.‎
    ‎ I think you and others who in line with US administration still living in dilution of ‎US doing A GOOD JOB there, honouring the US military for the good job their!!!.As ‎we saw the outcome of the staged BLUE Finger election this is not more than that, ‎
    I still did not get answer from that Mum she said that her youngest son told her about ‎the good Job US doing in Iraq when she saw him before leaving to Iraq again, she did ‎not get back to us to tell us what he told her what’s the good things US did?‎
    If you are their then tell us of Good things as you tracking the staged constitution ‎voting process, tell us the street hearts beat what they telling you about all this story.‎
    The fact is Iraq under US/UK occupations and the US tanks and Fighters and chop’s ‎ruing anywhere any time killing the civilians.‎
    Did you hear the recent report of human watch about US behaviours to enforcing the ‎residence of cities and towns to leaves their homes by cutting water supplies and ‎power “ in fact US destroyed the Water sanitation Stations like in Haditha, Falujah ‎and other places” ? ‎
    ‎ will inspire a great many of them to take a greater interest in forming the next ‎government to write a better one. I think this outweighs the risk, as stateded by Juan ‎Cole, of Shi’a or Kurd disillusionment resulting from having to go back to the drawing ‎board.‎
    I don’t think good outcome from it, just look to 100 US consultant or representatives ‎Bremer left them behind, working in each Iraqi ministries and what they had in matter ‎of power they can fire any Minster who is not in line with US polices in Iraq will fired ‎by them and I don’t know what their in Green Zone who had the power to Fire ‎Alja’afary?‎
    ‎as stateded by Juan Cole, of Shi’a or Kurd disillusionment resulting from having to ‎go back to the drawing board.‎
    Juan he is theoretical thinker and he is Academic person when Bush was running to ‎the war he was behind him when things went wrong in Iraq he distances himself ‎slowly from to be inline with Bush or US policy makers.‎
    The fact is these guys trying to put their theories under test on the ground despite they ‎did not had any idea about that ground, the problem as I see this is not Physics ‎theories you can prove it by doing experiments, this is human live by using them to ‎prove your idiot ideas on the suffering of humans, if things like that then I think this ‎insane ‎

  9. BTW, in the news from Iraq, Iraqi authority stated that all the detainees and the ‎prisoners’ ‎allowed to Vote for constitution, I think this is fanny ‎
    ‎1-‎ The recent report accused the Iraqi police and forces abused the prisoners ‎‎severely which mean to me these prisoner will vote in favour of what they told.‎
    ‎2-‎ This indicate other point that the number of detainees and prisoners so hight ‎‎that this authority try to get this number to their side.‎
    ‎HRW Reports Severe ‎Abuse of Iraqi Detainees

  11. Salah,
    Firstly, I never supported the invasion. It is clear that it was going to be and has since proven to be, bad for both Iraq and the US. Secondly, do you think it will be a good thing if the constitution passes with so many in the Sunni Arab community oppsoed to it? I do not.

  12. Dear Shochu John,
    I never supported the invasion. It is clear that it was going to be and has since proven to be, bad for both Iraq and the US
    Appolgy to my misreading you.
    But the answer for all this process by doing so to get this.
    “the only way for its grand economic plan to continue is for its military occupation to end: only a sovereign Iraqi government, unbound by the Hague and Geneva Regulations, can legally sell off Iraq’s assets.
    But will it? Given the widespread perception that the United States is not out to rebuild Iraq but to loot it, if Iraqis were given the chance to vote tomorrow, they could well immediately decide to expel US troops and to reverse Mr. Bremer’s privatization project, opting instead to protect local jobs.”
    Bush’s Iraq

  13. John C
    ‎we must do three things: (1) elect a new Congress in 2006, (2) impeach Bush, and ‎‎(3) begin a long and painful healing process. ‎
    Friend JC, may we add this to the list also The Thief of Baghdad

  16. “About five weeks into basic training, we were on our way to the chow hall shouting ‘trained to kill, kill we will.’ We were threatened with push-ups because we were not showing enough enthusiasm.
    “I found myself hoarse yelling this and, when I looked around me, I saw that most of my colleagues were red in the face, but totally engrossed.” Then he understood that the military was not just training him to kill, but “to kill with a smile on my face.” He had to get out.
    Easier said than done.
    Hinzman was a “good soldier,” he recalls. “I couldn’t get out of it, so I decided to make the most of it. Meanwhile, I was having this heavy internal debate about the morality of what I was doing.”
    He and his wife found the Quaker meeting in Fayetteville, seeking a “shared spiritual life” as they prepared for the birth of their child. The quiet worship contrasted sharply with Hinzman’s life at Fort Bragg, and his introduction to the Quaker peace testimony intensified his questioning.

  17. Guys
    we are having a cringe here in Europe about Bird Flu.
    The UK government is confidently predicting 50,000 dead in UK. They just arent telling us which year.
    They have found the first (non human) cases in Turkey which of course is next to Iraq. Suppose it does jump species
    1 will the iraqi health system be able to cope?
    2 Will the president let the troops back into the US?

  18. Baghdad- Ninevah province, home to the mixed city of Mosul and the besieged city of Tal’Afar, is seeing some very strange numbers. I’ve done back of th4 Excel envelope calculations and have found this:
    • In the January election, which was boycotted by Sunnis, there were 165,934 votes cast, according the the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq.
    • In October, according the the APs preliminary results, there were 419804 votes cast in Ninevah, an increase of 253,870 votes or +159.99 percent.
    • The number of people voting for the constitution in Ninevah, according the the AP, was 326,774 (78%), with 90,065 voting against it (21%). Less than one percent, or 2,965 votes, was disqualified.
    • By way of comparison, Tamim Province, home to the disputed cityof Kirkuk, saw 542,000 votes cast- and increase of 35.2% over January- with 341,611 voting “yes” (63%) and 195,725 voting “not” (36%). You mean we’re supposed to believe that in Tamim, which is also a mixed province but which has had a steady steam of Kurds movingin for the last two-and-a-half years, had more than twice as many no votes as Ninevah? And with the Kurds already pretty much owning Kirkuk? Color me skeptical.
    • What’s truly eyebrow-raising is that the number of constitutional “yes” votes -326,774- is more than the total increase in votes over January’s turnout. That suggests that not only did all of the Sunnis in Ninevah province, sho largely boycotted the January electons turn out, but that they all voted for the constitution. That’s’s a very strange idea to me, as I’ve not met a single Sunni who voted for it here in Baghdad.
    • http://www.back-to-iraq.com/
    Read Chris’ blog he is a journalist for Time, his numbers just don’t pan out.

  19. “Iraq is a landscape of poverty atop a lake of wealth. It is dotted with military citadels whose maze of bunkers and anti-blast walls eerily mimic their medieval forebears. Within, all seems safe and English-speaking. Food is good and Jeeps park within white lines. Outside, so the occupiers believe, a human ammunition dump is ready to explode into civil war should the civilised west depart.
    I believe this is a false, indeed a racist, analysis. All Iraq, probably the entire Middle East, is simply waiting for us to go”
    The Guardian

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