- This morning, I asked if it was true that US service members are now trading grotesque pictures of Iraqis and Afghans who have been or are being terribly abused onto a porn site in Netherlands. I’d read about it (in my lousy Italian) on the Italian News Agency ANSA website, here. But I can’t really read Italian so I invited JWN commenters to help out.
As always when I ask for help here, I got it. Thanks to those who commented and to the creators and maintainers of this great information-leveraging system, the internet… Here’s what commenters said. (And a belated hat-tip to the Belgian informant from whom I gained the original tip.)
I posted the main post at 10:18 a.m. At 12:58 p.m. Christiane (who’s Swiss) came back with a first quick rendering of the ANSA piece in English. Later in the day she polished and completed it as follows:
- Photo Horror- War in Iraq in exchange of free access to porn sites
Milano. As if they were [US-style baseball] ‘trading cards’, terrifying pictures of Afghans and Iraqis dismembered by war explosions are exchanged on the web in order to get free access to a pornographic site
The sending of the photographs, showing atrocious crudeness, is proposed to American soldiers on duty in the war fields. The website is meant for them and they are directly invited to send their horror material in order to get access to the pornographic section.
As can be seen by entering the network, more than a few weren�t able to resist to the call of the www.nowthatsfuckedup.com website, whose homepage says : �If you are an American soldier on duty in Iraq, Afghanistan, or in another theater of war and you would like a free access to the site, you can publish the pictures which you or your mates have taken during your service”.
The purely pornographic site is structured like a forum, where the users exchange amateur material not protected by a copyright. The pictures go from voyeuristic to hardporn pictures and video of pretended fianc�es and wives. There are two ways to access to the pornographic content : the users can pay a fee, or upload �interesting� material. And here enters the special discount for soldiers.
In two special sections the soldiers have the possibility to gain a free access to the hottest pictures, by uploading photographies and videos realized during their duty time. One part covers general themes, with portraits of troops, sometimes marked by a military sense of humour, while the other section looks like a true museum of the horrors, with mostly pictures of dead Iraqui and dismembered corpses. Actually, as soon as entering the section, you are warned that �it�s one of the most cruel, so persons who don�t want to look at that kind of material shouldn�t go further�.
Browsing through the posts is like entering an infernal spiral : each message in facts contains dreadful pictures, in an escalation of barbarty and crudeness increased by the comments of the site readers. Inflamed messages, not horrified at all by the view of these awful snaps taken on the theater of war. One sees corpses, carbonized, without head, without members, a face in a plate, the remains of a kamikaze, an arm, legs, all that featured with inhuman comments, nearly exulting about these butcheries. Adding to the horror of the members thrown in the dust and the crusched heads, there are captions like �The only good Iraqi is a dead Iraqi� or ironical references like �Poor boy ! what if the 72 virgins were all whores ?� Even the subject line of the posts struck by their cynicism : the pragmatic ones like �Some pictures in exchange of the access�, or �Dead men for the entry�, but also the barbaric quiz �Give a name to this part of human body�, preluding the vision of a piece of bloody flesh, burned out and crushed, in which it is difficult to recognize a human face.
Among the pictures found in the more general section are also some pictures of wounded US soldiers, sent by themselves. An Italian blogger whose nickname is Staib has drawn attention to this site of the horrors. He has talked about it vaguely on his own blog and also on several portals of counter information.
[Personal comment (from Christiane):
All this sounds like profanation of the dead and is clearly against the Geneva conventions. It shows also the kind of mental damages and cold inhuman behaviors which wars never fail to bring along. Who are the surfers visiting this site? are they mainly US soldiers on the theatre of war? or are there other sick minds developping a fascination for these morbid scenes ? Could it be a psy-op of the US intelligence in order to frighten the resistance and force it to cooperate? But as Susan Sonntag demonstrated : horror pictures can always be interpreted in different ways : as propaganda, in order to intimidate the enemy, or to increase the hate and the wish to fight, or as a means to denounce these horrors.
Thanks so much, C!
Along the way, commenter George (likely not the Prez, right?) contributed another rough (and machine-made) translation of the whole piece.
Mark from Ireland then came in with this:
- Yes that’s exactly what they’re doing Helena. Actually that story surfaced over here quite some time ago.
Here is the link to some articles:
ANSA (Italian News Agency)
http://www.ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/mondo/news/2005-08-21_1057322.html
Corriere Della Sera
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2005/08_Agosto/21/blog.shtml
The wonderful Nur Al Cubicle Has translated the Corriere article into English you can find it here:
http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/08/what-noble-people-what-noble-cause.html
The forum in question where Amercian “liberators” show exactly what they think of the people they’re liberating is here:
http://www.nowthatsfuckedup.com/bbs/forum23.html
And YES Americans, British, Danes, Macedonians, Poles, damned well should go there and see exactly what it is that is being done in their names. You’ll be able to see it and read such wonderful comments as – no I’ll let you read the comments.
Go there and see what is being done in your name.
Then, taking my courage in my hands I did go to that last URL Mark mentioned. (And Mark, thanks for reintroducing me to Nur-al-cubicle, who’s great.)
But going to that “NTFU” site was interesting. The link Mark gave was to a page there titled: Pictures From Iraq And Afghanistan – Gory; Moderators: chris, LordDefile, awwwwcrap22, Jonny2K, Jannemans14. It was a directory of other files you could go to. I clicked first on this one.
It started out with 19 photos of sort of “after-incident” reports. No captions or explanation of any of ’em. They each had dates which seemed to be in June and July of 2004. Some were extremely disturbing: the head inside and outside the bowl,; many burned bodies and body parts, etc.
As I said, no captions. But between each were what looked like links to other, explicitly described sex-porno (as opposed to pure-physical-violence porno) pages, also on NTFU. The juxtaposition is shocking/ sobering/ intriguing?? Tell’s us something profound about the nature of sex-porno, I think…
But here’s one really interesting thing about that page w/ the 19 ghastly photos: Below them, there was a discussion board, with most contribs dated late October 2004. The discussions were almost purely political and very intelligent, most of them not rhapsodizing about the violence or the war. Indeed, many of the people there seemed to be expressing a v. moral anti-war stance. Like this one, from a site or page “Moderator” called “Jonny2K”:
- Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I’m thrilled that I’ll have to be (tax)paying for veterans’ psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.
That one generated a long subsequent discussion.
Tnen there was this exchange between JonnyK and his fellow-moderator LordDefile:
- Jonny2K wrote:
Wow. All I meant was, “If these pics are so unsettling, think of how appalling it must be to be dealing with this shit irl.” (Admittedly, politicized a bit.)
There’s no question Iraq and the rest of the world are better off without Saddam Hussein and his psycho offspring. However, even George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld admit that, as it turns out, there was no pre-war connection between S.H., Iraq, and Al-Qaida. (Although there certainly is now!)
On the thinnest of evidence, the U.S. has gotten involved (with minimal international support) in an unbelievably complicated post-war quagmire. I don’t think there’s anybody in the world (let alone running for President) who has a plan that will get the U.S out of Iraq, put a popularly elected government in place, and end the terrorist insurgency any time soon. I fully expect this to be an issue in the 2008 campaign.
The Viet Nam experience was not a history lesson to me. I was fortunate enough to be able to avoid being there — but I was around to absorb the coverage of that war (which was much more comprehensively covered than this one) and its impact on the American people and American politics. The similarities between the conflicts are terribly disheartening.
LordDefile commented:
That’s cool, and I can see your point, no doubt. However, I HATE to see whiny fuckin reservists who are like “Oh shit, I can’t go to war”, when they knew DAMN well going into it that it was a distinct possibility.
Jonny2K responded:
In general, I agree with you. Theoretically, they knew the risks they were accepting when they signed up. Whether they knew then what they know now isn’t really a factor in whether or not they’ve got to do what they signed up to do.
But I try to be understanding when I look at them and realize that they truly didn’t have any idea what might be asked of them. I wouldn’t trade places, would you?
Contributor Sestos wrote:
- I would post some pic’s from during the war, makes those look tame. However, up till now we have kept most of our pictures inhouse. Saddly those photos are more common then rare. Not sure currently, but the worst detail you can have is cleaning up dead bodies days after they are killed so that the outside of the FOB does not have limbs and eyes all around it.
Anyway, lots more that’s interesting there. I’m still trying to catch up with the idea of having extremely serious conversations about war on a porn website…
The comments in response to those photographs are as horrifying as the images themselves. The images are of the dead. The voices – the comments – are of the living dead. Everybody caught in that web – dead or alive – has “passed over”. They’re both “in a different place”, a terrible place. Shakespeare’s got a line, “my mind is full of scorpions”. It’s Macbeth’s response to his dawning realisation of what he’s done…and what he’s become…and what he’s set in train. Which is by way of saying, this war isn’t just going to come home in body bags. It’s also going to come home in the minds of the living. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of them are going to be walking IEDs. Some of them will “go postal”. Some of them will commit suicide. Most won’t “go off”, but that’s cold comfort. Because the fuse will burn and burn…with predictable consequences. Domestic abuse. Broken homes. Nests fouled. Wives, children, girlfriends, parents, siblings friends coming in for bad times, harrowing times. Bottom line: the terrible things that are happening in Iraq are on their way round. Bush, Cheney, the neocons, etc. have pissed in our soup. And we’re going to have to drink it.
And what Americans will suffer (now and down the road) will be minuscule compared to what the Iraqis will suffer (now and down the road).
Considering that the American people allowed this optional war for a pack of LIES, I really feel we should forever forgo complaining about the “damaged goods” that have (will) come home, and the problems they will cause. We should make an attempt to help them, but shut up about “what we might suffer”.
Instead, we should recognize how we have damaged others, and how they are suffering, and make sure we address those issues. I even think we should address those issues FIRST.
Think the American vets have PTSD from this war? Well, the Iraqis have it a thousand times worse. Totally understandable, since the pain this war has caused has impacted them a thousand times more.
I’m starting to lose patience with the American’s ability to only take note of their own pain and only take steps to address their own pain.
Susan,
What, are you in real estate?
Nobody – NOBODY – who fishes in these waters is under any illusions about who’s paying the steeper price.
And quite frankly, sniffing haughtily from the ethical high ground isn’t going to cut it.
What might do it – it’s a long shot, but it’s the only one we’ve got – is the hard slog – the patient spadework – of changing minds. And – in the same vein – identifying pressure points and bearing down on them. E.G., Camp Casey, economic boycotts, spanners in the works of the military’s recruitment drives, winning some elections, etc.
And part and parcel of all of that is tackling the question of impunity. The impunity of those in high office. And, indeed, that of ordinary Americans who think – hope? – believe? – that there won’t be any “blowback”. When the cluck clucks come home to roost is when the thing will start to change.
There’s a few point I think need to be made here.
Helena – I take your point about a serious discussion on war on a porn site. (BTW a whois search on that domain turns up some very interesting information.)
I went through that forum in its entirety. My brain still feels dirty. The majority of the postings were, there is no other word for it, evil.
I don’t know for whom I have more horror and contempt, those who posted pictures to gain access to sexual pornography, or those who posted gloating and hate-filled comments egging them on, or those who run the site.
I have a lot of middle-eastern experience as a peace keeper. The forbearance of the majority of the population has always struck me as an indication of the quality of the Muslim world. They’ve been under relentless assualt first from the Ottomans, then British and French, and now (primarily) the USA. It’s astonishing that so few of them hate us.
( I’d be interested BTW in your thoughts on that from your experience. )
However much of what gets posted here and on other fora strikes me as indcative of the root of the problem. “We” are still presuming to dictate to “them.”
Their experience of Secular Western values has always been one murder, torture, rape, oppression, and grinding poverty. Be it directly at “our” hands or at the hands of whichever regime happens to be currently “our son of a bitch”*
The fact is that it’s “us” who historically are the problem there. The sensible and ethical thing to do is to get out now while we can with whatever shreds of decency are left to us.
I know all the arguments that that will somehow make “us” responsible for the ghastly wars that will ensue. I reject this argument as being a thinly concealed expression of how “our” values are superior. It took the USA for example 10 years to come up with a constitution. It took the first industrialised war – the USA civil war – for that constitution to be fully accepted. And now the USA is presuming to demand that a constitution be made up – just like that – for its short term political gain.
From my POV we’re the problem. not the solution nor any part of the solution.
Mark from Ireland,
Any chance you can shed some light on the “very interesting information” that a Whois search turns up. I had a look myself and drew a blank. Be good to know what you’re getting at. Tried to email you but it wouldn’t wash. Post here? Or email me directly. Tnx.
Yea, what are you trying to find out about me. I own the site and can tell you anything you want to know.
“What might do it – it’s a long shot, but it’s the only one we’ve got – is the hard slog – the patient spadework – of changing minds.”-Bad Moon Rising
I have been working on these issues, every day, since 2001. I made two trips to DC so far this year, next one in September, to lobby and protest and go to meetings and trainings, and…. I’ve lost track of all that I have done. Back at it tomorrow, when I work all day at an Energy Fair, both to prevent shipment of nuclear materials through our area and to promote the Sept 24-26 events in DC. I have 200 flyers to hand out on that. Plus, I have to get my display boards down to the Southeast Energy Expo…. there are five boards, each 40 x 60 inches, covered with the names of dead Iraqi civilians. I made them.
I am a precinct vice chair, go to meetings nearly every weeknight (phone meeting tonight with United for Peace and Justice), run listserves, write letters to the editors (one in CSM today, Helena’s paper) and editorials and a blog. I am heavily involved in UFPJ, local peace group and Progressive Democrats of NC PAC (served as treasurer). I am preparing 100 handouts for all 100 US Senators next month. I’m very proud of my friend, Cindy Sheehan, and all that she is trying to do.
oh, and I work full time.
Plus I email all kinds of people about all kinds of issues… like media reform, pro-war extremists, racism, cultural blindness, and American self-absorbtion.
So, what have you got planned for tomorrow in the area of political reform, peace activism and social justice? I’ll check back tomorrow night.
Susan, after reading through you post above, I just felt I have to thank you for restoring my faith in human kind.
At times I feel there can never be peace as log as we concieve of ourselves as members of the pack and can only empathize with other members of OUR pack… The fact that you see and feel the pain of others being just as real as your own is amazing all by itself.
The fact that you choose to do something about it and find the energy and time to do it is all the more impressive.
Thank you, and may your spark never burn out,
Romeoman
So, what have you got planned for tomorrow in the area of political reform, peace activism and social justice? I’ll check back tomorrow night.
How did Milton put it, “they also serve who only stand and wait.” In short, I’ll read a fair old bit and maybe write a letter or two. Not perhaps best placed being on the other side of an ocean.
But seriously, hats off to you. Good on ya, etc. etc. You’re doing great work.
Difference between a mainstay and a speck of caulk in a barrel on a pier half way around the world.
But I don’t think any of that gainsays the general point that every bit helps, everthing needs to be looked at. If the only way through to a helluva lot of Americans is to try to wake them up to what they’ve let themselves in for…well, why rule that out of court?
As for you, Chris, not much point really. I think we’d be shouting at each other across an unbridgeable gulf.
Actually I’d love to learn more about Chris and NTFU and think it’s really interesting you came here, Chris.
Tell us anything you want to about your site, your reason for running it, and your thoughts on the fact that people are having serious discussions about politics and the Iraq war on a site that looks to me like a real porn site.
Also, is the name of the site ironic?
Well we are a community, so yes people in a community have discussions just like people on this site would. True, porn is what brought this community together but believe it or not there are educated people that view porn every now and then =)
In this case the press blew this up bigger then it is. I wanted to give our soldiers free access as a “Thank You” for the job they do but I also needed them to prove they were actually soldiers based in Iraq and Afghanistan, the submitting of the pictures was just the best way to get that done.
And naturally, once you had the pictures – Only as proof that they are real soldiers, of course, and not to profit by them yourself! – you could not possibly just keep them in a file, or simply delete them. Oh, no! You had no choice but to post them on your sick website.
Disgusting.
No, I could have kept them to myself; but why? I think everyone should see them. This is a side of the war that is shown from the soldiers THEMSELVES. Where else can you go see that? Right now all we see are pics from the media. I don’t like the media feeding me things, I want to see first hand what’s going on there.
No one making you look, if you don’t like it; don’t look. You know exactly what you are going to see when you go there. There are no tricks, it’s spelled out in plain english.
But I don’t think any of that gainsays the general point that every bit helps, everthing needs to be looked at. If the only way through to a helluva lot of Americans is to try to wake them up to what they’ve let themselves in for…well, why rule that out of court?
you’re right. It might help.
If you are an overseas American, then I think writing letters to Congress and writing/emailing/calling the White House may help. If you are not American, then options are more limited. Donations always welcome! Not to me, but to organizations that support this work. Although I am going broke too…
Doing fundraisers for Iraqi charities would also be helpful. I am trying to get something going in that area.
Romeoman, thanks for the compliment.
I agree “everything must be looked at” and “Right now all we see are pics from the media. I don’t like the media feeding me things, I want to see first hand what’s going on there.” and if the lure to discussion is the showing of pictures of porn and the reality of what we’re doing then so be it.
Personally, I don’t have to see those pictures or the porn but they have brought us all to this forum and that is probably to the good.
That said, I will hope to see all of you in Washington DC on Sept 24th.
actually, writing to the congress is of little help these days in the empire, as i found in meeting with my representative:
We hadn
I went to that site and saw the pictures. The subhuman scum that posts them is more shocking that the pictures themselves. So what, Americans are scum and I hope (and I believe they will) get eventually nuked. God save the earth from this vermin.
I’m going to close the comments here (and on the next post) because this post has attracted ways too many spambots and clearing out their spam has gotten to be too much work.
Sorry about this because I’ve found the discussion interesting. I think there’s something in the post’s title that attracts the spambots.