Here is the column I have in today’s Christian Science Monitor.
It’s titled (not by me) “Democracy– after the vote” and tries to make the point that a commitment to “democracy” involves a lot more than simply sponsoring the holding of a single, (perhaps) technically fair, nationwide election. What I argue there is,
- It is uncertain whether Iraq’s vote can be held as scheduled, given the breadth of the insurgency. But even if it is held, neither that election nor the one in Palestine will assure the rights of the voters unless Iraqis and Palestinians also rapidly win their national independence. In addition, during the process of transferring sovereignty, the US (and Israel) need to convey – and also model – two of the key “big ideas” behind any true theory of democracy: the need to resolve differences through discussion, rather than violence; and a complete respect for the rights of others, including – crucially – those with whom we disagree.
If the Palestinians and Iraqis do not speedily win national independence, then elections held to “interim” bodies will have little meaning. But worse, democracy itself can get a bad name…
I think it is extremely important to continue making the case that democracy necessarily involves a commitment to resolving differences through discussion and negotiation, rather than violence, in every way that we can.
I have been horrified that the idea that “democracy” can sometimes be delivered on the tip of a cruise missile, or through the heft of a 1,000-pound bomb, has gained any currency at all within the United States. Let alone, that even so many people in the political center in this country seem to think that it’s a distinctly plausible, even a laudable, idea.
I guess that this may be related in good part to two factors:
- (1) The fact that so few participants in elite-level political discourse actually have any firsthand experience at all– or even much engrained folk memory– of what it’s like to live inside a country that has itself become a “target” of war. This is something I definitely want to write more about in the near future, given my own distinctly different experiences of having grown up in an England still badly scarred from two World Wars, and of having spent six years living, working, and trying to raise young kids within a Lebanon that was certainly, back then, a country massively ravaged by war.
(2) The distinct, if somewhat abstract, attractiveness of (a certain framing of) the post-WW-2 reconstruction experience in Germany and Japan. Looked at in hindsight, by Americans, it has seemed plausible for many of them to argue that it was the war that allowed the restructuring of those two societies along democratic, more or less tolerant lines…
This last point is also worth discussing a lot more. I just note here that, (a) Neither the US nor any of the other Allies entered the war with the goal of fashioning Germany and Japan as democracies. That outcome was, if anything, a collateral benefit of the hard-won Allied victory; (b) The costs of that war to all participants were enormous. Definitely not the kinds of costs any responsible leadership should lightly think of incurring; (c) The democratization of both Japan and Germany took a lot of time, effort, commitment, and investment.
As longtime JWN readers all know, I was against the launching of the invasion of Iraq all along. (As I was, earlier, against the anti-Serb war in Kosovo.) However, once the war against Iraq had been– despite the best efforts of all of us in the antiwar movement– launched, and then after that won, there was still an opportunity for the US government to put into the post-war governance of Iraq the same kind of effort and commitment that 58 years earlier, it put into the administration and restructuring of Japan or Germany. So I set aside my previous criticisms of the launching of the war, and in what I hoped was a friendly fashion urged the Bushies to do the best they could to retrieve the best they could out of the problematic post-war situation in Iraq.
Once again they did not listen to me, or indeed to many people at all who have solid, concrete experience of Arab societies and/or the real requirements of post-war rebuilding…
But then, in addition, they went ahead and acted as though it was quite possible to “deliver” democracy by undertaking massively escalatory acts like the bombing of Fallujah.
The whole situation is tragic, just tragic. But I wish more people inside and outside the US would stand up and say clearly that a commitment to democracy involves a commitment to trying to resolve differences peacefully. If you don’t have that commitment, then “democracy” is just a code-word for, “we support the establishment of a government that agrees with us.”
No, friends, that ain’t democracy at all.
You stated:
“behind any true theory of democracy: the need to resolve differences through discussion, rather than violence…”
I am sure many Iraqi’s will see the irony in this – the “democratic” US was not prepared to solve disputes rationally and rushed to war.
To make matters worse America has not been able to face it’s shadow.
regards
eric
helena, thank you very much for bringing up the point that we americans have no real concept of what its like to live in conditions of war. i was thinking about this recently after watching the movie “control room” again (just got it on DVD) and thinking about how differnt your perspective must be when you can see the effects of war – the bombed out buildings or even the buildings newly rebuilt from rubble. there is no real significant reminder in american society that war = destruction of lives FOR THE LIVING as well as the dead (even our reminders for the dead are in neat rows in arlington, hardly symbolic of the brutal chaos of war). i don’t hope that “the war will come home”, as they say, but i think about it sometimes, and how it will radically change the way we define “war” in our society.
Disregarding domestic rebellions, I cannot think of a single case where a country went to war elsewhere for the purpose of establishing democracy. Farsighted victors realized that the establishment of a liberal democratic society would be necessary to prevent future conflict, but it has never been the sole, or even primary, goal. I’m welcome to be corrected on this one.
A country at war has its own agendas, maybe legitimate, maybe not. Whether future democracy is merely “collateral” or something more, it will still be subbordinated to the goals of the country at war.
I don’t think the U.S. bombardment of Faluja helps democracy. At the same time, I don’t think letting the assorted resistance in Faluja run rampant would help either. Helena’s point is well taken. We should resolve matters non-violently rather than violently. The question is, how do you deal with a violent resistance when non-violence does not work, especially when you want to encourage the growth of civil society?
It’s very easy to criticize the mistakes the U.S. has made after “major combat operations” had ended, because there are so friggin many of them. And I also think that even if the U.S. administered a PERFECT occupation, we would still have these problems, which is one reason I was against the war from the beginning. But at the same time, I cannot place all the blame on the U.S. and ignore the fact that the “resistance” is just making things worse for everyone involved.
The themes are Peace and Democracy. Good themes, let’s remember those two words.
Helena’s column in the CSM misses the crucial points:
But what I dislike most about the column is it’s lack of substance. The column has a vaguely deprecatory attitude about the US efforts in Iraq and no discernable criticism of the head-choppers, kidnappers, and Islamists. This probably amounts to support for the pro-violence and anti-democratic forces who want a Sunni dictatorship restored to Iraq. Why support them?
——————–
Two independent states living peacefully side by side…
While it seems possible that there could be two states living side by side, there is precious little evidence that peace will prevail between them. What makes you think it will? Because peace would be rational?
Let’s face it, the creation of a Palestinian State would introduce a new phase of Middle East history, but we don’t know what it would be like. Except that the Palestinians would have better weapons than they do now.
Can we expect that a Palestinian Pacifist movement will come to power in Palestine, or should we look forward to something more like Hezbollah or Hamas? And shouldn’t we expect Syria to subjugate Palestine the same way they subjugate Lebanon
The Obi Show Podcast 050113
The Live Podcasting project, Iraqi elections and it’s gotta be sleepy time.
Links coming soon…
teach four two
Just World News
Christian Science Monitor
Show Notes
Direct mp3 Link…
Helena, I wanted to comment on your column (I came here after reading it):
“Will the US be prepared to hand over sovereign power in Iraq to a duly elected leadership even if it disagrees with many of the policies espoused by that leadership? The principles of democracy indicate it should.”
I would go farther… I would say it *MUST*. Anything less is not democracy at all.
And a comment on what you wrote above:
“The democratization of both Japan and Germany took a lot of time, effort, commitment, and investment.”
It also required LEGITIMACY, in the eyes of the citizens of Japan and Germany, and in the eyes of the world. This is lacking in the situation in Iraq.
Warren W., I think you made some errors in your thinking:
“The US is trying to support the elections.”
I would argue they are trying to manipulate them.
“If the insurgents take control of Iraq there will be neither peace nor democracy.”
True, but it is not our problem to fix. It is the Iraqis who have to fix their country, since they are the only ones who can.
“Being against the US war in Iraq is explicitly supporting the violence-addicted dictatorship of Saddam and his sons for 70 more years. There was no other way to dislodge that family other than by war. It was simply a question of when.”
This is total and complete nonsense. I’m opposed to the death penalty, that does not mean I support murderers. As a matter of fact, it is totally illogical to say we should kill people to teach them that killing them was/is wrong.
It is VERY CLEAR at this point that UN weapons inspections and sanctions actually did prevent Saddam and his government from building WMDs. We also know that the sanctions were brutal on the Iraqi people, and that Saddam continued (to some degree at least) to commit human rights abuses. We know the “oil-for-food” program feed the Iraqis while there was lots of graft. I’m not in favor of stealing, but it is a LESSER crime than torture or murder.
Now, here’s an interesting question: what would have happened if we had combined UN inspections with an economic “carrot” instead of an economic “stick”? Iraq was an economic outcast of the world… what if we had sincerely offered to make that country a part of the world’s economy if the END of human rights abuses could have been documented?
In short, what if we had tried the opposite of the non-violent action taken against South Africa? It worked, didn’t it? Apartheid is over in South Africa, and human rights abuses were worse there than in Iraq (at least for the last 12 years before the recent war started – Saddam may have been worse when the US was supporting him. Saddam certain did less human rights abuses once the US stopped supporting him).
“However idealistic the idea of the UN may be, the actual UN is a corrupt institution that fed off the Saddam regime, would never have brought democracy, and promised that the “Inspections will find the WMDs”.”
The fact is, the UN is the best we have to work with right now, so please start trying to make them better, not tear them down. The US authorities were surely in on the UN graft in the Saddam regime: there is absolutely no way they could not have been. Yes, the inspections would not have found the imaginary WMDs, since they were quite invisible. The inspections could have established the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and no programs to make them. (Yes, Saddam had the intent…so does a whole lot of other countries!)
“In the debate leading up to the war, neither side guessed or claimed that the WMD’s were really gone. Both sides were wrong.”
I think when you are saying “both sides” you mean the pro-war and anti-war side. I can assure you, and a google search will establish, many people on the anti-war side did not believe that Saddam had WMDs. I personally (based on my knowledge of the world) thought that Iraq DEFINATELY did NOT have nuclear WMDs, and I doubted they had biological or chemical WMDs. (If they had, they could not have gotten them to us… no navy, no air force. And it was years since the US sold him any, so those old WMDs were no good.)
If by “both sides” you mean that Saddam thought he had WMDs, that is not accurate either. Saddam clearly said, on live TV in Britian, that he had no WMDs or connections to al Qaeda. Sad, isn’t it, that Saddam could out-truth Bush?
“But what I dislike most about the column is it’s lack of substance. The column has a vaguely deprecatory attitude about the US efforts in Iraq and no discernable criticism of the head-choppers, kidnappers, and Islamists. This probably amounts to support for the pro-violence and anti-democratic forces who want a Sunni dictatorship restored to Iraq. Why support them?”
You fail another chance for logical thinking! We are totally in the NON-VIOLENT CAMP here on this blog, so we of course condemn ALL VIOLENCE. Therefore, we are not supporting the terrorists or violent people (even Americans) at all.
About Palestine:
“While it seems possible that there could be two states living side by side, there is precious little evidence that peace will prevail between them. What makes you think it will? Because peace would be rational?”
Yes, we work, hope and pray that rationality will prevail. First, people need to think logically and not go around and accuse others of ridiculous stuff, like they must support terrorists because they don’t approve of US policy to use gratuitous violence.
**Please note that state violence OFTEN encourages the victims to become terrorists.**
Criticizing this type of US policy is the most patriotic thing any American can possibly do, short of stopping it totally.
I am very glad I am in the patriotic anti-war, and anti-violence camp. I sleep well at night because I know I do what I can to help my country find the light and the path to peace.
Susan Oehler says a lot:
And I won’t go over all the points.
Helena’s article was a general support for peace and democracy. Susan basically argued that it wasn’t our business. Maybe so, but my point was that Helena wasn’t really supporting peace and democracy. My point was that Helena was objectively supporting violence and dictatorship.
The real reasons the US went to war in Iraq was not to bring democracy to the Iraqi people. The reason was military: That the Saddam regime was certain to make war fairly soon. If you don’t believe this, then your opinions on things will differ.
Basic to my point is that the only chance for peace and democracy in Iraq was/is replacement of the Saddam regime, and this can only be done by force. If you don’t believe that Saddam’s Iraq was a military threat, then of course you might conclude that it was best to leave things alone, despite the hardships on the Iraqis of living under Saddam.
I certainly do not believe that killing people is a way of “Teaching them that killing is wrong”. I think that force was the only way to change the regime in Iraq. And if you are committed to peace and democracy in Iraq then you are committed to the use of force.
It is only clear that weapons inspections and sanctions delayed Saddam somewhat from building WMD’s. It must be remembered that when the war in Iraq started, the sanctions were crumbling, the French, Germans, Russians and Syrians were violating the sanctions, the UN and others were making a mockery of the Oil-for-food program and a world-wide sanctions movement was raising hysteria about half a million imaginary dead babies. All inspections had been stopped dead by Saddam until the US put a threating army in Kuwait in 2002. This force could not stay there for the decades needed to inspect Iraq to the point we now have. Sanctions and inspections had become a moot point and a dead letter. They had run their course.
Only the threat of direct force from the US military was able to get Saddam to let inspections continue, without the gun pointed at his head from Kuwait no inspections of any kind would have occurred.
Even if you feel that letting the region take it’s natural course: the survival of the Saddam dictatorship and the future wars that Saddam would start, you just can’t call that position support of peace and democracy.
And I really don’t think that sanctions were brutal on the Iraqi people. Saddam was brutal on the Iraqi people. Iraq had more than enough cash to feed itself quite nicely. The truth matters, and doubting the brutality of Saddam while over-emphasizing the costs of the sanctions is simply not realistic.
What if we had sincerely offered to make that country a part of the world’s economy if the END of human rights abuses could have been documented?
As you know, the issue wasn’t just the human rights abuses, it was the military potential and liklihood of future mass deaths and future destabilization of the region. Saddam had already attacked Iran and Kuwait with massive forces, and attacked Saudi Arabia and Israel with missiles. Saddam had already used chemical WMD’s on the Iranians the the Kurds. All the signs, in combination with Iraq’s refusal to abide by the Security Council resolutions to PUBLICY DESTROY WMD’s in front of the inspectors, pointed toward future mass deaths.
The mere fact of the personality of Saddam and his sons in combination with the power that the oil wealth brings, was clearly a lethal combination.
The US authorities were surely in on the UN graft in the Saddam regime: there is absolutely no way they could not have been.
This is news to me. And if you can’t prove it somehow I think you should retract it. I don’t know whether it’s slander or libel but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support it. Even if it were true it wouldn’t mean the UN had the gumption or the ability to tame or replace the Saddam regime.
It may seem unlikely that Saddam could have reached the US with chemical or biological weapons. But the events of 9/11/2001 provide a stunning counter-example. It was Saddam’s responsibility to prove he did not have the weapons, it was not the responsibility of anyone else to prove that he did. That is the meaning of the Security Council resolutions.
We are totally in the NON-VIOLENT CAMP
My whole point is that urging non-violence in the face of the head-slicers and kidnappers of the Sunni insurgency (or indeed, in the face of Saddam) is encouraging violence. And that this is pretty obvious and that Helena, in particular, probably knows this.
—-
On Palestine:
Yes, we work, hope and pray that rationality will prevail.
There is absolutely no evidence to support this idea. All the history we have supports the notion of future wars under different conditions. And while you are praying for peace, pray for wisdom.
They must support terrorists because they don’t approve of US policy to use gratuitous violence.
Helena’s position in the CSM article, in my opinion, objectively supports terrorism, even though Helena would never decapitate a reporter or a truck driver. I feel Helena has moral responsibility for this. US policy is definitely not to use gratuitous violence, it is to use measured and directed violence. Setting up IED’s by the roadside to kill Americans is gratuitous violence, and Helena failed to condemn this in her article. (And what’s this got to do with Palestinians?)
Please note that state violence OFTEN encourages the victims to become terrorists.
If this is true, and I am not sure it is, it certainly has no relation to the Israeli/Arab conflict. Arab terrorism against the Jews goes back to the 1920’s and shaped every step of Israeli policy, including the establishment of Israel. Even the Mufti of Jerusalem helped the Nazis round up Jews and send them to the gas chambers. This is no secret. It was Arab policies like this that made the establishment of Israel necessary and a one-state solution impossible in 1948.
Since the Palestinians started the Intifada, they have been losing about 3 lives a day due to the war. This is less than some cities lose due to traffic accidents and street crime. The Israelis could kill 3 Palestinians a day with one guy and his rifle. If Israelis wanted to commit “State violence” against the Palestinians they could kill 3 people per minute, or per second. The myth of Israeli state violence is sheer propaganda intended to support terrorist attacks. Why would you want to participate in that?
Just a few days ago (14 January, 2005), some Palestinians blew up some crossing points on the edge of Gaza, killing 6. Was this not gratuitous violence? Did any of you “Peace and Democracy” people come out against it?
If a State of Palestine is established, the number of people killed per day will probably go up, not down, since Palestinians will now have better weapons.
Hi, friends, sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to this discussion. Eric and Alex, thanks for your good points.
Joshua, you raise an extremely important question when you ask, “how do you deal with a violent resistance when non-violence does not work, especially when you want to encourage the growth of civil society?” This has always been a core challenge for nonviolent activists. Personally, I am very quite persuaded by the views on violence and nonviolence of the Dalai Lama (whose people have faced much heavier and more sustained organized violence, in a situation much more markedly tipped against his “side”, than the US military faces in Iraq today).
Basically, he says two key things: (1) If you use violence you may get to where you “think” you want to go more quickly than if you use only nonviolence; but any such gains will be precarious and can slip away, whereas gains won through nonviolent transformation of the “enemy” (and oneself) are solid and lasting; and (2) If you use violence, you are always contributing to an ongoing cascade of violence that goes down many years or even centuries into the future with quite unpredictable consequences for everyone in the world (including yourself); but if you use nonviolence you can actually, slowly but surely, end that cascade of violence.
I have found both parts of that thesis to be quite true, at many different levels of my own life.
I differ with your proposition that even if the US ran a “perfect” occupation we would still be having the same problems. I really think there was a “window of opportunity” there in late spring 2003 that, had it been responded to with wisdom and foresight, could have led to a considerably better outcome by now. Sadly, we will never be able to test that.
And Joshua, I don’t place all the blame on the US. But as a citizen of a democracy I do feel a strong need to take responsibility first and foremost for the behavior of my own government– paid for with my tax $$– in that situation. Plus, as the militarily strongest power in Iraq the US, (1) has demonstrated and used the capacity to be more lethal than any other actor, and (2) is more capable than any other actor of setting the general stage in Iraq for violence or nonviolence.
Warren W, I think I had dealt with most of your points in my main post. However, I completely disagree with your assertions that, “Being against the US war in Iraq is explicitly supporting the violence-addicted dictatorship of Saddam and his sons for 70 more years. There was no other way to dislodge that family other than by war.” First of all, there were many other ways to “dislodge” them, including by supporting the building of a genuine, grassroots based democracy movement which the US never did. Secondly, it’s just plain wrong to assert that “being against the US war” is explicitly to support the Saddamist regime. (If the word “explicitly” there has any meaning.) But even “implicitly”, your argument is false. There is always an alternative to violence (see above, “Dalai Lama”.)
On the Palestinian having “better weapons”…. D’you think they’ll ever get a nuclear or chemical arsenal to match Israel’s? If so, maybe we should take your fears seriously. Short of that, though, it’s evident that Israel will dominate every step of any conceivable ladder of military escalation… Which may be why the Palestinian negotiators have been actively exploring an outcome of near-total demilitarization.
Susan Oehler– hi! welcome to the Comments boards here on JWN. You make some really excellent points. You are, however, wrong to assume that everyone who contributes to the Comments boards here is “totally in the non-violent camp”. (See Warren W, above).
I actually welcome the opportunity to discuss issues of the utility or disutility of violence here.
But WW– you went ways, ways over the length/hogging
guidelines in that last post. This is your last warning.
My post was not too long. What you didn’t like was the content. My post was 30% larger than Susan’s post, by line count (75 vs. 58 of text on my wide screen.).
Nevertheless, I admit I never noticed the 300 word “Limit” before. On my screen, that would be about 15 lines.
Susan was approximately 400% over the limit and she got no warning. You can guess how I feel about that.
Building of a genuine, grassroots based democracy movement which the US never did.
In Iraq, you mean. A grassroots democracy movement with massive external pressure took 45 years to work against the Soviet Union. The ideology of the Soviet Union was more conducive to “Revolution from Below” than was Iraq. And nobody could tolerate 45 more years of the Saddam family. Conceivably it could have worked
On the Palestinian having “better weapons”…. D’you think they’ll ever get an … arsenal to match Israel’s? If so, maybe we should take your fears seriously.
In anything like an even contest, either the Israelis, at worst, lose 90% of their population and land. Or the Arabs, at worst, lose 2% of their population and land. So the Israelis will never let the Palestinians get near parity. That’s just the truth. The Israelis take the issue extremely seriously. Even if you don’t.
Israelis take the issue of Israeli deaths or national destruction more seriously than you do. For you, it’s just too bad if Israel gets creamed. For all your posturing about “Peace”, another Holocaust is really okay with you. That’s the issue.
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