A hawkish and militarily ill-informed political leadership with a losing “plan”… A military leadership, recognizing some realities of imminent defeat on the battlefield, but split over whether to escalate or pull out… The dawning of a stark realization that one actually needed more ground troops back at the beginning; but now, one doesn’t have a strong enough ground force to be able to make any concerete difference… The rising of a “last-gasp” demand from within a highly ideologized portion of the ruling elite that one “do something militarility”… But the recognition from the serious military commanders that there’s nothing one can actually do on the ground, any more, that will make any real difference…
Where did we last hear all these stories?
Israel, in late July and early August.
And now we hear them again: Washington, late December.
Get out of Iraq while you can still minimize your losses, guys.
That, surely, is the best “lesson” you can get from Israel today. (Not that that’s the lesson the Israeli leadership– eager as ever to have America fight its wars for it– is currently offering.)
But even in Israel, even after they’d figured out they needed to end the summer’s imbroglio in Lebanon as fast as they could, in order to avert the massive catastrophe that loomed for their forces there, it still cost them relatively large numbers (for them) of uselessly spent losses among the ground troops before they could extricate themselves from a foolhardy and ill-prepared aggression against and into another country.
How many more US soldiers’ lives will be lost before the US pulls out of Iraq?
That’s the question we Americans should all be asking our leaders.
21 thoughts on “US in Iraq; Israel in Lebanon”
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New SecDef Robert Gates hears the unvarnished truth in unscripted meetings with randomly chosen US soldiers serving in Iraq:*
“Gates had breakfast with U.S. soldiers to hear their views.
’Sir, I think we need to just keep doing what we’re doing,’ Specialist Jason Glenn told Gates.
‘I really think we need more troops here. With more presence on the ground, more troops might hold them (the insurgents) off long enough to where we can get the Iraqi army trained up.’
None of the soldiers present said U.S. forces should be brought home, and none said current troop levels were adequate.”
Whaddyaknow.
*triple irony alert
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061221/ts_nm/iraq_dc
واشنطن: سنبقى طويلا في الخليج.. وعلى سورية وإيران فهم الصراع
http://www.asharqalawsat.com/details.asp?section=1&issue=10251&article=398173
This bit of news about Gates Visit in Iraq I found it just in Arabic news today, reported that Gate he warren Syria and Iran by saying “We are staying in the Arabian Gulf for long” they should understands the strategy in the region!!
I can not find any reference to this news in English, I don’t knew from war Asharq Alawsat get the source for this news
In another news bit ” Rice: Iraq Worth Investment in U.S. Aid”
“Words used by Gates and by President Bush make it plain that the ceremony, the installation of a new secretary of defense, was political in nature. Same president, same insurgency in Iraq, new secretary of defense, New York, New Haven and Hartford, as the old comedy line used to interpose. But the challenge was squarely put — to the American people. And what will certainly be new, and will soon be evident, is the attitude of the new Congress. Will it find the means to reformulate our policy in the Middle East, in such a way as to avoid calamity and restore national credibility?”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucwb/20061221/cm_ucwb/cangatessucceed
Check out Scott Ritter and Seymour Hersh talking about White House plans for regime change in Iran, on Democracy Now:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/21/143259
Salah, I know you are no fan of the current regime in Iran, but what is your position on transformation by military means? One of the big propaganda efforts being spearheaded by Condi Rice is to make it appear that there is an alliance of “moderate” Arabs backing US intervention in Iran. Is there any reality to that?
John C.
what is your position on transformation by military means?
John C., of course NOT! I hate any war to any nation, despite I don’t like Iranians regime.
I think Iraqis found “Learned by Hard Way” the regime change it means chaos and disastrous way of change for the nation and to the normal and incant people, those regime’s close members they never suffered from all the wars as we seeing with Saddam family and his very close members they playing with billions of dollars, US and new Iraqi government kept tiet lips about those billions Saddam and his folks theft from Iraq and Iraqis, his family members are enjoying their time and life after they flee Iraq, they forgot those flourishing words, speeches and punishment of many Iraqis who tried to speaks for the good for Iraq and Iraqis.
If we apply this to Iran as you said then we will see Mullah may be Ahamdinajad in one of the west countries with million/Billions in the end the Iranians civilians will suffer the consequences of the war and the example ready and live in Iraq.
appear that there is an alliance of “moderate” Arabs backing US intervention in Iran. Is there any reality to that?
John C., there is a hidden power struggle now in the Gulf after Iraq goes down,
This power vacuome not can be fixed by foreign power as US trying now but for the long term things changing and not can be for ever as those nation in the region themselves full the vacuum either by power “who is strong take the lead” or by discussions and agreements between them
.
you need to remember that Khomeini in 1979 when he came to the power he said he will exporting his revolution to neighbours, that cause those stated run to Saddam (not US/West) and support him fro his 8yeras war, and we saw after that they turn their back to Saddam and asking him give us our money after they felt Iran were “injured lion” licking his deep injuries from long war.
I can say part of the “an alliance” is correct due to Iranian interferences in the neighbouring nations and some times causing some unconfidences about some minorities of people in those states.
The 2nd part is US and others they chasing these states to get behind their goals some times by softy nice talk some times by hard ways, you know these governments “the elite in the ruling families” having a lot of business and money in US, Europe and ales where they think twice if US and UK asked them for help, add in top of that these families who ruled the states are not quite loved by their citizens specially after the war in Iraq, they really in humiliations situation due to their long support of US and the west which they proud of as ruling regimes but the normal citizens now asking our friend killing our brothers in Iraq? So its really very hard case, these states trying to build the case for Iran especially after 33dayes Israeli/Lebanon war, they trying to show their citizens “be careful from Alsayd” he is Iran man looking for his bodyguard “Iran”.
So I don’t know in precise what the future will be.
But I think if US really looking for stability of the region “which I personally I don’t have faith in this” they should push towered the finish of Palestinians case fast and Iraq will come down soon with some insurances that US leaving the country some time soon.
A Clash of Civilizations
The real crisis isn’t about nuclear weapons, but Iran’s determination to reshape the Middle East in its own image.
By Amir Taheri
Newsweek International
Amir Taheri has credibility, and a function, similar to that of Chalabi’s.
Come on, Salah! Amir Taheri?! He is of the same ilk, has the same credibility, and is performing the same function as Chalabi did. Please find a more convincing source to prove your points.
Helena
I suspect you are wrong about the question to ask.
The question is “what is the objective of the US involvement in the Gulf, the Middle East?”
I was once made to study Bernard Montgomery and remember his dictum that men will take the chance on being killed or injured if there is a worthwhile objective to be achieved, but that morale collapses if they are being squandered pointlessly.
Coupled with this was his belief that soldiers must actually understand why they were fighting, and that they deserve to have things properly explained to them. Montgomery thought that one of the most important roles for a military commander was to motivate his men to fight, that military command is “a great human problem”. In addition, Montgomery’s experiences in the First World War led him to despise generals who led from the rear, well away from any fighting, and so was visible in his campaigns.
As His Eminence the President has announced the new Childrens Crusade and the state of perpetual war described in 1984, it might be useful to understand what the purpose of this child sacrifice is
This war on terror is the calling of a new generation. It is the calling of our generation. Success is essential to securing a future for peace for our children and grandchildren. And securing this peaceful future is going to require a sustained commitment from the American people and our military.
For a rational, sane, and detailed analysis of the area people might try.
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/pdf/research/mep/Iran0806.pdf
The middle east is clearly on the verge of descending into total chaos. Our Iraq adventure only accelerated the inevitable. Israel has grand designs and no intention of doing anything that might promote peace and jeapordize the future of Olmert, Peretz, Netanyahu, and all the others who use the perpetual war to advancetheir own interests. Same for Abbas and his crowd. Once Turkey comes to realize that all their groveling to the EU will not get them admitted to the club, they will turn East and then it will be a new ball game. The despots in Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, and Jordan ( our moderate friends) are hanging on by the skin of their teeth, their secret police and the US financing and military support they receive. Their time is surely limited. Bush’s war has opened a Pandora’s box that we can no longer hope to close.
Quotation
“The U.S. has broken the second rule of war. That is, don’t go fighting with your land army on the mainland of Asia. Rule One is don’t march on Moscow. I developed these two rules myself.”
(spoken of the US approach to the Vietnam War) Quoted in Chalfont’s Montgomery of Alamein.
Now the Saudis and the rest of Gulf state behind them feel the heat of the Iranian fire reach their feets and they miss the dictator Saddam time….. He is gone guys your feet will burn soon
Surprise Tarik Aziz will set free!!
بغداد بصدد إطلاق عزيز و31 من رموز النظام المخلوع
http://www.elaph.com/ElaphWeb/NewsPapers/2006/12/199155.htm
Salah,
I am sorry that I see you quote A. Taheri and feel sorry for the Saudi’s and other gulf Sheiks’ tender feet. This is why divide and conquer always works.
Jack
Turkey realised it a few months ago.
The Prime Minister talked about in New Anatolian at the time.
Bags of fun in that area now.
David,
I am sorry that I see you quote A. Taheri
David, I knew A. Tahri position in fact I do not agree with most of his writing, but as he is Iranians “Parisian” he reflect to me how the Iran’s Mullah and regime thinks that what interesting me.
and feel sorry for the Saudi’s and other gulf Sheiks’ tender feet.
I surprise you saying that David, from your post I feel unloving feeling for them.
This is the NEW ME, US went to Iraq on dreams that she got control of Iraqi oil and secure the supplies to US and the west then she will turned back and blow the Saudis in revenge of 9/11, but the dreams not always comes true so US may using Iran as posy doge fearing these sheiks and playing again same game as before when Saddam was in the cage and US boost her military power in the region and took really a good position that those regimes have no chose now just to obey the master….
Blair’s Mideast Message Echoes Past Failure
Analysis by Trita Parsi*
Analysis by Trita Parsi*
Months before the ongoing discussions between Israeli and Palestinian on Oslo were revealed to the public in 1993, the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin began arguing that Iran’s fundamentalist ideology had replaced communism as an ideological threat to the West. Iran was “fanning all the flames in the Middle East” and Israel’s “struggle against murderous Islamic terror” was “meant to awaken the world which is lying in slumber” of the dangers of Shiite fundamentalism.
Like Tony Blair, then-Secretary of State Warren Christopher adopted this rhetoric in Washington’s efforts to advance the Oslo process. “Wherever you look,” he told reporters in March 1995, “you find the evil hand of Iran in this region.”
Dear Wafaa’:
This is something that needs urgent reaction to stop the damage done and to let it be known to the people of the world, DEMOCRATIC WORLD ESPECIALLY! My niece telephoned me from Baghdad this afternoon telling me that she, and other women and young girls have volunteered as nurses in Numan hospital in Aadhamia to take care of people wounded as a result of mortar bombs raining on the city since the sentencing of Saddam Hussein. She said that the hospital has been deserted by most of the medical personnel and lacks all the necessary medicines for such an emergency-simply not being supplied. Also there is no water and electricity in Aadhamiya. They have started a campaign to collect contributions to buy the necessary dressing stuff and other articles.
Wounded persons refuse to be transferred to other hospitals because the militias are prepared to abduct every wounded person, if not killing her/him at once. Many victims of these sectarian atrocities, some with fractured limbs prefer to stay at home suffering all the agony than going to hospitals run by the same militia that inflicted damage to their health and property.
The silence of all the media, as if nothing vile is going on, is astonishing.
Abdul Kareem
November 10, 2006
Dear All, best wishes at this apparently special time of year. I thought after reading the seasonal messages above it might be time to rework the lyrics of the old Band Aid Song:
“Do they know its Christmas?” to sing around the blood soaked craters on December 25 2006:
“It’s Christmas time
There’s no need to be afraid
At Christmas time, we let in light and we banish shade
And in our world of plenty we can spread a smile of joy
Our WMDs around the world at Christmas time
But say a prayer
Pray for the other ones
In Baghdad it’s hard, even with a gun
There’s a world outside your window
You won’t see on CNN
Where the only thing that’s flowing is their oil and bitter blood
And the Christmas chimes that ring there
Are the clanging tracks of tanks
Well tonight thank God it’s them instead of you
That wasn’t snow in Fallujah last Christmas time
The only gift they’ll get this year is death
(Oooh) Where nothing ever grows
No power in Hospitals
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all?
Here’s to you fill your gastanks everyone
Here’s to them corpses in the burning sun
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all?
Chorus:
Feed the worms, Feed the worms, Feed the worms
Feed the worms, Feed the worms
Let them taste democracy again
Feed the worms
Let them know it’s Christmas time
Rule the world
Teach them Christianity
Rule the world
Let them taste democracy
Rule the world
Teach them Christianity”
In a startling reversal, US military “commanders” have suddenly decided a troop surge is just what they need! They came to this realization even though they “have not settled on what [the] mission should be” for the additional troops. Well, I guess if the “commanders on the ground” are insisting on a surge, then Dick & W will just have to go along with it.
Helena once again distorts history. The aggression in this matter was from Hezbollah, who engaged in an unprovoked raid into Israeli territory and launched missles at the country.
But for Helena, that shows “daring” and “inventiveness.” But racist hatred toward Israel is hardly daring or inventive, it’s just par for the course for some of Israel’s neighbors.