The gifted video-journo Max Blumenthal has now brought us a vivid picture of the racist hatred that is so freely expressed by some young people in Tel Aviv.
This adds to Max’s growing “hate in Israel” library. The first installment was “Feeling the hate in Jerusalem”, which he released last month.
In Jerusalem, Max was interviewing mainly a bunch of pampered and drunk visiting young Jewish Americans. This time, his subjects include some young, apparently raised-in-Israel Jewish Israelis participating in some kind of street festival. Max notes that one of them described Pres Obama as “a Nazi, a Muslim, and a ‘Cushi,’ which is Hebrew slang for ‘nigger.’ When questioned about the source of his opinions, one teenager proudly declared himself a ‘gezan,’ or a racist.”
… Anyway, go see for yourself what kind of racist hate-speech seems to be considered quite okay to use in the public discourse in today’s Israel.
Great work, Max!
82 thoughts on “Max B. “feels the hate” in Tel Aviv”
Comments are closed.
Helena, get up out of your defensive crouch! Must I again cite what you said about the “hostile nature of others” and how crude, inciteful and escalatory it is? Your blog is rapidly becoming a hate site. Drunk Israeli teenagers saying stupid things on camera? Wow! What a scoop! What’s next, clips from borat?
Hunh? Me, being hateful, Vadim? Um, haven’t you gotten you things a little upside down here?
When Max released his earlier video, some people said exactly the same thing– “Why show only drunkards spouting off”? Well, two answers to that. first, Max’s interlocutors in this film are not all drunkards, by any means. Secondly, what kind of an “excuse” or an “explanation” is it supposed to be, that someone was “drunk” when s/he uttered some snippet of hate-speech?
If you got drunk or I got drunk, would we do that? For myself, I can honestly say no. I haven’t been drunk much recently; but I do have a few memories of having been so back in the day. In general, my experience (re self and others) is that alcoholic intoxication loosens the inhibitions people often have– generally, that is, inhibitions against saying what is really on their minds.
But it doesn’t suddenly– kazam!– implant quite alien thoughts into a mind that wasn’t previously, at some level, thinking them.
Ever heard of the saying “in vino veritas”? It has a lot of truth to it.
So if you’re against the public expression of hate-speech, maybe you ought to talk to your friends in Jewish-Israeli society about doing some strong, solid, anti-racism education there… Seems like it’s sorely needed.
I’m not against the public expression of hate speech. I’m sure i could find much worse in the arab internet with 20 seconds work. I find the representation of drunken teenagers as ‘typical Israeli behavior’ to be more flagrant hate speech, all the more sad and desperate because you claim to be sober.
I think that in all cases, gross generalizations about the “hostile” nature of members of an “Other” group are crude, ill-considered, and often actually escalatory, even if (as noted above) sometimes understandable.
Do you remember writing this? Leave the drunken teenagers behind and rejoin the community of serious grown ups. Mardi Gras is over.
I agree with vadim. The point of this isn’t really clear–the people filmed are clearly in the wrong, but those who gleefully post these things to make the point that they are moral beacons “see? i’m right, those jews really are as terrible as i secretly believe” reveal more about themselves than they realize, just like the clueless racists in the video.
I commend Helena Cobban and invite people to take this item together with the previous one about the young Israeli peacenik.
This is a useful pair of insights that together describes the mechanism of a dialectical movement forward.
The emergence of an Israeli Anti-Apartheid one-person-one-vote-in-a-unitary-state movement is a practical inevitability, against a background of crude indoctrination, and this is what we are seeing here in fact.
The colonial propaganda creates, at the same time, both a perverse camaraderie and also a natural revulsion for a false reality based on the suppression of truth. These two products of the same propaganda will henceforth develop and contradict one another. The minority “peacenik” effect is the stronger of the two because it is subjective and mature and not passive, and therefore it will come through.
Both sides of thei contradiction need to be held in view in order to understand the phenomenon which taken together is the condition of Israeli youth.
The cruder the racism, the closer the end, is a good rule of thumb. Therefore one needs more, and not less examples of the behaviour of Israeli youth, remembering of course that these racist youth are also in some sense victims. This is by the way not the first example one has come across. It is very important to get the flavour of it on a constant basis. Please, Helena, do not be swayed by those who would wish you to blind us in one eye. Do not be persuaded to censor the reality of Israeli colonial racism and the reproduction thereof.
That’s it? What a lame video! And you are congratulating him for that?
Helena.
Here are a couple of excerpts (love speech) included in The Israeli Project that was leaked by Newsweek that the vadims et al wanna read on JWN>
Rules
10) Draw direct parallels between Israel and America—including the need to defend against terrorism.
The language of Israel is the language of America: “democracy,” “freedom,” “security,” and “peace.”
12) No matter what you are asked, bridge to a productive pro-Israel message. When asked a direct question, you don’t have to answer it directly. You are in control of what you say and how you say it.
13) Talk about the future, not the past.
14) Hope.
15) Use rhetorical questions. Avoid head on attacks of your opponents. Use a soft tone. Show regret that the Palestinians have been led so poorly.
17) K.I.S.S. and tell and tell again and again. A key rule of successful communications is “Keep It Simple, Stupid”.
Successful communications is not about being able to recite every fact from the long history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. It is about pointing out a few core principles of shared values—such as democracy and freedom—and repeating them over and over again.
18) Avoid “analysis paralysis” and be pro-active.
22) Never, never, NEVER speak in declarative statements. Never.
Omop — that’s helpful, esp. re the business of drawing parallels. Gives me another clue as to why some here and elsewhere were so incensed at the essay I recently wrote noting the similarities between the Iranian and American revolutionary experiences. Occurs to me now I was violating somebody’s unwritten copyright. :-}
Scott, I went to your (4 July) post and the comments thereon to try to see what you mean now, in this latest comment of yours. I can’t, quite. With respect, I think you are missing opportunities to engage more closely with the responses that you get. Instead you are pining for, and holding off in the hope of getting, the responses that you yourself want to get. I wish you would engage more closely.
“Gifted journalis” my a**! Do you really think that Max Blumenthal simply went out and asked some kids at random and then didn’t edit out those whose responses didn’t fit his desired goal?
BTW, “kushi” is not racist or the equivalent of “nigger”. “Kushon” is. But I wouldn’t expect the drunken kid, Jesse Max’s “translator” or you to know that.
Well, JES, I guess if Max’s video is edited, then all those racist comments are insignificant? Say, I have an idea! Why don’t YOU make a counter video called Feeling the Love in which you show what a strong degree of love and human solidarity Jewish Israelis feel for their “equal” Palestinian fellow citizens?
Oh, and by the way, if “kushi” is not the equivalent of nigger, what DOES it mean?
Reading all the commenters who are continually harrassing Helena – a well informed and professional journalism – because she dares criticize Israel policy, I’ve been wondering why they are all swarming in here and I’ve come to the conclusion that Israel and the Jews living there are slowly but surely loosing their status of victimes, while their misdeeds toward the Palestinians are finally getting through to the world opinion.
So for them, there is a lot of Public Relations to do, as shown by Omop. However, PR isn’t enough to change reality, so they won’t be able to fool the rest of the world for much longer, despite all their harrassing and mobbing. Their status is changing and their past status of victimes won’t give them an eternal free pass to act as aggressive oppressors.
Christiane, we aren’t “harassing” H. because “she dares criticize Israeli policy” – we’re disagreeing with her manner of criticism. Perhaps this isn’t clear to you due to language comprehension issues. ALL of the “hasbaras” on this site have criticized Israeli policy. But drunk teenagers aren’t in charge of policy, and their blathering proves nothing meaningful about Israeli society, just as the Borat movie involving similar footage doesn’t “prove” that US society is essentially racist (this may also surprise you).
If you intend to engage Israelis -or anyone else- as equals I would caution against caricatures drawn from “street level” interviews, especially of alcohol-impaired juveniles.
Why don’t YOU make a counter video called Feeling the Love
because obviously one shallow gesture doesn’t cancel another. It’s real simple Shirin: if you think essentializing Israelis via cherry-picked footage advances the dialogue, you should have no problem with MEMRI videos popping up on every thread.
Here’s one to get you started.
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD79104
I can’t wait to read Helena’s first post on Saudi Arabian antisemitism (or human rights, or democracy, or gender apartheid, or religious discrimination, etc etc etc)
Helena grasping at every hate straw she finds, what about res non verba? For example same day honor killing in Saudi Arabia, or the Paris murder gang getting such a lenient sentence that the prosecutor requests a retrial. Christiane, you want to see hate you generous francophile, google Halimi and say a good word will you? The sickening bias emanating from your pores stinks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8141593.stm
On 29 April gang leader Youssouf Fofana, 28, took his seat in court, smiling defiantly and declaring: “Allah would be victorious.”
After more than two months of closed-door hearings, Mr Fofana, rejecting any help from lawyers, was allowed to express his opinion in court for the last time.
“It’s better to live like a lion for one day than to live like a sheep for 100,” he declared.
Mr Fofana, a gang leader from just outside Paris, stood accused of the murder of Ilan Halimi, a young Jewish man who worked in a mobile phone shop.
It was alleged that Mr Fofana instructed a female gang member to lure Mr Halimi into an empty apartment in Bagneux, where he was attacked, beaten and drugged.
Ranson
Mr Fofana is said to have targeted Mr Halimi because he believed that “Jews are loaded”.
Prosecutors describe Mr Fofana as a “perverted, immature megalomaniac”
During his three-week ordeal, Mr Halimi’s family were sent harrowing images and video recordings by his captors who demanded a ransom of 450,000 euros ($600,000; £405,000) for his release.
The victim was eventually found naked and tied to a tree near a railway. He had been stabbed and set alight. He died on his way to hospital.
———–
Saudi Arabia’s religious police are being blamed for the death of two sisters who were murdered in what is known as an ‘honor killing’ by their brother after the sisters were arrested for allegedly mixing with unrelated men.
Saudi King Abdullah.
Photo: AP
The Society for Defending Women’s Rights in Saudi Arabia said the religious police arrested the two sisters, aged 19 and 21, thus putting their lives in danger.
Their brother shot them to death in front of their father when they left a women’s shelter in Riyadh on July 5, according to Saudi news reports.
Of course there are varying degrees of hate speech and other hate acts found everywhere in the world. I’ve never denied that. But the willingness of many young Israelis– some inebriated and some not– to engage in hate speech in public places, including a street festival and the campus of a big mainstream university, tells us something about the climate of public discourse in their country.
In my hometown of Charlottesville, VA, it would be very hard to find any resident expressing hate speech sentiments to perfect strangers… In the Tel Aviv shots, the people who did this must have had some kind of expectation that the strangers to whom they were speaking– who were also, moreover, quite openly filming the encounters– would find their words unexceptional or to some degree acceptable.
This is not to say that in my hometown or perhaps most towns all round the planet, you would not find people who would harbor such thoughts or express them privately in small groups of confidants. The significant thing is the expectation these young Tel Avivians had that in the public places where they were talking with perfect strangers, their views would be considered normal or acceptable. That tells us, as noted above, a lot about (their not unjustified expectations concerning) the general climate of discourse in their city.
But absolutely, let’s not knock all Tel Avivians! What great news that the young leftist pol Dov Kheinin got 34% of the votes cast in last November’s municipal election there, as I have also noted. He did that while running on behalf of the communist Hadash Party, which is dominated in Israeli politics by ethnic-Palestinian Israelis. So I’m betteing that he and his people put out a resolutely anti-racist message. Go, Dov!
Speaking of omniscience! With all due respect, how the hell would you know what goes on in Israel, among Israelis or on Israeli streets? And what if young Maxie, that spoiled brat, were to take his camcorder and ask young Palestinians how they felt about Israelis and Jews? What do you think they would tell him. (Although I bet he’d show a great deal more deference than he does toward is “own people”.)
JES,
I’m reading Helena’s blog since the US invaded Iraq and reading all the comments regularly as well. So when I say harrassing I know from what I’m speaking.
Interesting to note that appart of bashing Helena once more, you didn’t have anything to answer concering the fact that the Israelians Jews and their supporters are loosing their status of victimes in the world opinion and getting that of the oppressors.
Also, while you recently claimed to be critical of the Israelian governement as well, I dont’ remember having read anything from you which wasn’t in support of it and against Helena’s justified and serious work.
Well, I’ll stop there, because I don’t think that anyone knowing the writings of Helena will be fooled by your arguments or that of your likes.
I’ve read so many of your diatribes that if you had any solid and valuable arguments, I’d have already become one of your supporters. But you didn’t manage that… so what is your goal exactly here, apart that of harrassing Helena ?
Titus/JES “For your eyes only”.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html
Once again.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html
In a very direct way, isn’t it terrifying that these young people will soon be patrolling the occupied territories very soon? What happens to all that bitterness when you provide it with lethal weaponry?
Christiane, I’m coming to the conclusion that JES, Vadim et al are actually a part of a rather sophisticated Hamas Psy-Ops campaign 🙂
Steve, weren’t you complaining about rudeness on another thread? Don’t disparage other posters, specially those who haven’t said anything to or about you. Maybe you need to re-read Helena’s posting guidelines?
Joke, Vadim. I didn’t realize you were that sensitive a soul. I’ll be more gentle in future.
S
…the Israelians Jews and their supporters are loosing their status of victimes in the world opinion and getting that of the oppressors.
That’s because, Christiane, I don’t really think that this, quite frankly self-serving remark warrants a response.
Also, while you recently claimed to be critical of the Israelian governement as well, I dont’ remember having read anything from you which wasn’t in support of it and against Helena’s justified and serious work.
I might ask you what you mean by the “Israelian[sic] government”. I have, over the years, provided plenty of criticism here and elsewhere of the various governments. However, I don’t think that that’s quite what you mean by “government”. I think that you mean “state”, and in that context, I think you mean the “state as an entity”.
Finally, I really am not trying to win you over to my side.
Christiane,
Tu ne maitrises pas assez l’anglais pour determiner la difference entre “harassement”- comme tu dis- et discussion. Helena fait certaines declarations basees sur ses prejuges, fantasmes, et ideologies. Il n’y a aucune raison de laisser passer ca si Jes ou Vadim ont une autre version de la verite/realite. C’est comme ca que ca marche en general. HC ne se plaint pas et elle est assez grande pour se defendre, donc t’as pas besoin de lui lecher le derriere.
Une autre chose. Tu dis un tas de conneries sur ce blog.
the racist hatred growing up more, now Graffiti War Erupts Over Israel’s Road Signs
So JES you think that my remark that Israelian Jews are loosing their status of victimes and gaining that of the oppressors in Public Opinion is only selfserving and doesn’t warrant an answer ? How comfortable for you. After all, you aren’t there to have a discussion, it seems.
Plus, I don’t see why it would be a selfserving remark. It is merely the description of how public opinion is evolving. See to-day’s blog entry of Juan Cole at Informed Comments entitled “Israel in touble with Europe”
Yet, Juan Cole has a whole blog entry on this theme. Go look at
The reason that I felt that your comment did not warrant a reply is that, if you truly understood Zionism, you would know that it is ridiculous to even suggest that the goal of a Zionist is to appear to be the victim. (Perhaps this is the goal of Palywood Propagandists. I don’t know. But it certainly isn’t my goal or that of any other Zionist that I know.)
Your citing of Juan Cole’s blog had me quaking in my Zionist hob-nail jackboots though – although I am not what he qualifies as an “Israeli hawk”. The fact that the UK government has suspended a small fraction of the arms sales that Israel receives from the UK (which is only, in itself, a small fraction of its total arms imports) appears to be to everyone involved a token action. Let me put it to you bluntly: This, together with forcing the tourist office to remove the map from the subway signs, are both token actions. The British government and military will undoubtedly continue working together with Israel quite closely.
BTW, Christiane, I watched The Third Man for the umpteenth time yesterday. There was a line there that reminded me of you. Holly Martens (Joseph Cotton) and Harry Lime (Orson Welles) are at the Ferris Wheel in the Prater, when Harry delivers the following speech:
“Don’t be so gloomy. After all it’s not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly.”
Gotta love Graham Greene!
JES, the swiss are responsible for many fine inventions (the web browser, velcro, the numbered bank account) but not the cuckoo clock. That credit belongs to the Germans.
Yes, Vadim, I was aware of that. I suspect that Graham Greene chose the cuckoo clock because it sounded more dramatic than, say, Velcro (and certainly more than the numbered bank account).
Ruth. Your insulting commentary addressed to Christiane merits to be read in English.
“Christiane,”
Your command of English is not enough to determine the difference between “harassment” – as you say and discussion.
Helena made certain statements based on prejudices, fantasies, and ideologies. There is no reason to let Jes, Vadim have another version of the truth / reality.
That’s how it works in general. HC does not complain and she is big enough to defend herself, so you do not need to lick her ‘derriere’.
Another thing. You say a lot of crap on this blog.
Posted by Ruth at July 15, 2009 12:20 am
Yawn
OMOP. Google translator, heh? Not very good interpretation.
Why are there so many suck ups on this blog? What is this? A mutual admiration society?
I know you are a gentleman but C is a big girl. She is more than capable of defending her own conneries.
Omop,
Thank you for your help and translation. I had decided to let it go, not worth the trouble for an answer, but since you bring it up again, there are two insulting things which may escape to the english readers :
1) In French there are two way for addressing people, the familiar “tu”, used for friends and family members on one side and the more formal “vous”, used when you don’t know someone, when he is older or/and is your boss. Using “tu” for someone you don’t know and to whom you have never talked before is in itself insulting.
2) You have translated “conneries” with “crap”, this is rather gentle. Although relatively frequently used the term “conneries” is built from the noun “con”, a mean word to designate the genitals of a woman.
Ruth,
Omop made a perfect translation of what you wrote. I don’t understand why you are after him. Also, concerning my English, I grant you that I’m not always able to express my thoughts in good English. But I can assure you that I understand enough english in order to see the diffence between harrassing and discussing.
BTW, for anyone having any doubts concerning JES Vadim et al, just use the search tool of this blog and look how many messages are written by JES and his likes. The numbers speak by themselves.
Ruth:
Pour vous.
The processs Dr. Zimbardo says, “begins with stereotyped conceptions of the other,…conceptions of the other as worthless,…the other as a fundamental threat to our cherished values and beliefs. With public fear notched up and enemy threat imminent, reasonable people act irrationally.
Stanford University’s Dr. Zimbardo can be eaily Googled in English
The defenders of Israeli colonialism, such as Ruth, will become more and more provocative between now and the day when the Israeli colonial project finally falls apart. Such provocateurs will not feel bad about writing disgusting things and offensive, rude things, so long as they can persuade themselves that it is “working”.
“Working” would mean that it was putting people off from commenting on this blog, or reading this blog. It looks like Ruth is not succeeding, and she or he must not be allowed to succeed.
Omop: What does Dr. Zimbardo have to do with Ruth?
That’s an interesting take on our motivation. I must remember to tell my hasbara handlers when I go in to pick up my next check.
JES.
What business is it of yours what Dr.Zimbardo has to do with Ruth?
You are better off sticking to Rule 17 of The Israel Project,
17) Keep telling and retelling again and again a few core principles of shared values—(common only to both Israel and the US) such as democracy and freedom—and repeating them over and over again.
And remember, its not what you say that counts. Its what people hear. Must be a hasbara dictum!
Results 1 – 10 of about 690 from justworldnews.org for vadim. (0.05 seconds)
Results 1 – 10 of about 770 from justworldnews.org for christiane. (0.04 seconds)
Hmmm Christiane, according to these statistics you “harass” Helena about 10% more than I do. Congratulations, you win!
But the willingness of many young Israelis– some inebriated and some not– to engage in hate speech in public places… tells us something about the climate of public discourse in their country.
What would you say about a country whose largest political party lobbies against “homosexual proselytizing” in its plank, condemning it as “deviant” & “immoral”; that uses crude racist imagery (black hands grabbing at passports) and islamophobia (“use your heads” over a picture of muslims performing sujood) to promote its xenophobic agenda? (Christiane, chère voisine, whose warped political climate am i describing?)
I’d say the presence of racists willing to speak their minds tells us very little about the “climate of public discourse” of any country, since its quite typical of even the most civilized nations. I guess Virginia must be the exception (/five alarm irony alert!)
vadim:
‘I’m not against the public expression of hate speech. I’m sure i could find much worse in the arab internet with 20 seconds work. ‘
the difference vadim is that israels behaviour is the basis of any arab hate speech…israels hate is based on their sense of ethnic superiority, of privilege….and guilt at land theft. For which theyve never paid compensation.
vadim:
‘Your blog is rapidly becoming a hate site. Drunk Israeli teenagers saying stupid things on camera?’
Thats it they msaid it on camera, and they werent too drunk, as their remarks were quiet coherent. You act as if sober theyd never say it.
vadim a zionist troll:
‘I can’t wait to read Helena’s first post on Saudi Arabian antisemitism (or human rights, or democracy, or gender apartheid, or religious discrimination, etc etc etc)’
admit it vadim: youre here to defend israel…you keep saying: well, look at what the arabs do….
I dont see the arabs razing concentration camps they themselves set up. The kids in the videos are the outcome of decades of entrenched zionist racism and privilege. A neonazim.
Brian, how the hell would you -an outsider to the conflict-know what either sort of racism was based on, and who cares? Yes the kids in the video were quite obviously ploughed, and yet still seemed embarrassed about what they were saying as one of them was pleading not to put the footage on CNN.
OTOH those adult men and women interviewed on Saudi television knew their words were being broadcast on national TV, & they were stone cold sober. Plus they weren’t talking about Israelis, but Jews on the whole (as in, if I shook a Jews hand, I’d have to cut off my hand, the Jews are eternal enemies of Islam, etc.) I can produce 10 videos like this for every one “Max Blumenthal” orgy of prejudice. Big deal!
Friends, Ruth has certainly overstepped the bounds of friendly discourse and has been banned.
Vadim, you are getting close to the line with your distractions, untruths, and hostility.
I think Domza is quite right to note that the more the heat is on the Israel-Uber-Alles crowd the more frenetically they will come and intervene in fora like this…
Vadim, you are getting close to the line with your distractions, untruths, and hostility.
Err exactly what untruths are you talking about? That the children you chose to highlight in this post were obviously inebriated, eyes at half mast and slurring their speech? Sorry but it’s obvious. That one of them says “this isn;’t going to be on CNN right?” That’s also obvious from the audio.
Despite your quite aggressive, mean spirited posture toward me and the other people you routinely disparage as “hasbaras” I feel no hostility toward you Helena. I feel nothing but sorrow for you and whatever it is that causes you to pour gasoline on this dispute with your crude escalatory generalizations.
As far as distractions, I notice you keep ignoring this:
I think that in all cases, gross generalizations about the “hostile” nature of members of an “Other” group are crude, ill-considered, and often actually escalatory, even if (as noted above) sometime understandable.
Maybe you regret writing those words. In any case you seem not to care any more what they mean. Pity. I hope whatever pain that compels you to lash out in this way is relieved and that you find peace. God bless you and good night.
how the hell would you -an outsider to the conflict
You too Vadim?
You living in US and you defending Israel so your outsiders too.
Don’t tell me Goggle,visited Israel or friends…
Vadim, you seem unable to understand the basic meaning of what I write. Where have I ever written anything like “all Israelis are haters”? That’s what would constitute a gross generalization about the “hostile” nature of members of an “Other” group
I never have expressed such a gross generalization, and nor has Max Blumenthal. He has noted– and recoded the fact– that there is a non-trivial amount of hate-speech expressed in public places in Israel. I happen to agree with his observation– based in good part on many conversations I’ve had with Israeli peace activists who report a lot about the abuse to which they and their Palestinian friends are subjected in public places.
This is quite different from making a gross generalization about “all Israelis” or “all Saudis”, or “all” members of any other national, religious, or ethnic group.
Also, your recovery of raw figures about how many times you or other commenters have had comments posted says nothing about whether the comments in question have been “courteous, fresh, helpful, and to the point”, or not. As it happens, Christiane’s always have been, even when she disagrees with me.
Gotta love Graham Greene!
The passage you quoted, JES, is actually the one small speech that Welles contributed to the script. Now what are the odds of that happening?
What is atrocious about the comments of JES, Vadim and other apologists for the Israeli regime is the flip, callous and inhumane attitude which underlies their view of what is happening in Palestine.
Like the young fools in the Blumenthal videos they really can’t take the idea of Palestinian humanity seriously. But they are not young, or drunk.
Their attitude is very much that of the colonial racist, the British in Africa, the southerner in the Dixie: they know that the Palestinians don’t count. They have forgotten why, the rationale is unexamined, it is something that they take as given, it has always been that way.
This allows them to be perfectly unaffected by episodes like the Gaza massacre. They pose as rational beings, ready to discuss matters, open to argument but they are really just as contemptuous of those who disagree with them as they are of Palestinians.
They have lost the ability to recognise that Palestinians, particularly the children and the aged and the, obviously civilian, women, who cannot in any sense be regarded as threatening, are not legitimate targets for snipers, or thugs.
When young, half trained, heavily indoctrinated, unquestioning private soldiers of the IDF act like brutes it is not hard to understand that they are under the sort of pressures that produce nasty, violent behaviour.
When grown-ups, far from the dangers of battle and committed to the rational codes of academic discourse, cannot bring themselves to understand the humanity of Palestinians and the need to address, soberly and respectfully, the very serious case that they have, the scandal of the soldiers’ behaviour pales in comparison.
Underneath the mask of the scholar, sifting evidence and judging nicely, we recognise the figure of the bigot, moved by elemental hatreds, to whom there are no mysteries, just the diabolical certainty that his tribe must be privileged. That nothing beyond it is real. That no-one outside of it counts.
And that when one witnesses a crime one’s role is to help cover it up, explain it away, deny it.
The significant thing is the expectation these young Tel Avivians had that in the public places where they were talking with perfect strangers, their views would be considered normal or acceptable.
No, I think that the significant thing is about Maxie’s film is that in the Tel Aviv segment he captured four, that’s right four young, drunk Israelis on film spouting racist trash. (He also filmed someone described as a Jewish-Druze Israeli, whatever that is?) that is not a “non-trivial amount of hate-speech expressed in public places in Israel,” it’s an extremely trivial amount of hate speech!
So, Helena, what do you think would be the chances that out of the population of 46,000 people in your hometown of Charlotsville that you could find four drunks using the “N” word? (And I’m giving you a tremendous benefit of the doubt here, because the population of Charlotsville is about one-tenth that of Tel Aviv.)
Quod erat demonstrandum.
As Bevin describes, so JES at once performs.
The real question JES should ask is how many of the 46,000 people of Charlotsville would one have to interview to find one who, drunk or sober, would apply the “N” word to Barack Obama.
And of course the really real question is how many Tel Avivians did Max have to interview to obtain the footage he showed in the video, and how many of those he interviewed on tape did NOT express racist sentiments similar to those included in the video. I am sure Max can answer that question, so why doesn’t JES just ask him? Or does JES really not want to know?
Helena
Also, your recovery of raw figures about how many times you or other commenters have had comments posted says nothing about whether the comments in question have been “courteous, fresh, helpful, and to the point”, or not. As it happens, Christiane’s always have been, even when she disagrees with me.
Thanks Helena, Vadim’s figure don’t even take the time elapsed into account. As far as I remember he is not commenting on this board since as long as me, although I can’t remember when he appeared there. So, in order to warrant the comparability of the results I used Google’s advanced search capabilities, restraining the time lapse to comments issued during the last years (the longest time lapse available for searching, which covers the period beginning on January the first of 2009); here is what I got :
Results 1 – 27 of 27 from justworldnews.org for Christiane. (0.26 seconds)
Results 1 – 47 of 47 from justworldnews.org for Vadim. (0.17 seconds)
Results 1 – 67 of 67 from justworldnews.org for JES. (0.16 seconds
Results 1 – 69 of 69 from justworldnews.org for bb. (0.20 seconds)
The real question JES should ask is how many of the 46,000 people of Charlotsville would one have to interview to find one who, drunk or sober, would apply the “N” word to Barack Obama.
Shouldn’t be too hard if you start with UVA’s fraternities (famous for racist stunts like this:
http://george.loper.org/trends/2002/Nov/80.html)
I guess this tells us “what’s considered quite okay” in Helena’s hometown.
Rabbi been on the sauce?
“The combat medic, a young, kippa-wearing father who studies Jewish philosophy at university and whose living room wall is lined with holy books, also said an IDF rabbi told him and a few of his comrades that “this was a war between the children of light and the children of darkness,” and that “we would not have to account for our sins.” The last thing the rabbi told them, he recalls, was this: “Remember, guys, aim for the torso.””
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443820082&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
Here’s the problem, JES, Vadim etc. If you are what you say you are and are so personally knowledgeable about Israel, it’s politics and its social currents, then you also know that this kind of attitude has reached enormous proportions in Israel. Then you seek to hide it, diminish it, reject it as a problem.
In doing so you do enormous damage to your own credibility and become viewed on these boards as nothing more than instruments of some shady Zionist propaganda machine.
These last few posts by Helena can all be tied together and seen as a severe problem for Israel: Newsweek’s printing of the message directives (would they have done that in the last Presidency?); young, moderate Israeli’s leaving in droves (shades of S Africa) and the nasty racism of a youth brought up to believe in the superiority of what they believe is their race, bolstered by the foreign fighters – many pumped up with hatred of Arabs virtually since birth – coming in from the United States and the former Soviet Union.
You’re smart people. Work it out. What are you defending? What are you promoting? I’ve been involved at the sharp end of some of the worst armed conflicts since WW2 and I will say that I find the direction of Israel to be terrifying. I think you should too.
S
Helena,
I realize that you like to maintain a civil discourse here (and, of course, why wouldn’t you?) but I also believe it to be a mistake to ban people. Personally, I prefer all views, no matter how awful, remain out in the open where we can see them and contest them.
But, as always, thank you for sharing with us your intelligence, determination courage.
S
Steve, might I ask on what basis you make these claims?
I live here (in Israel), and I have done so for the past 30 years. So one student said that there was an IDF rabbi who told the soldiers some racist things. That’s horrible. But what of the Hamas-affiliated imams in Gaza who’ve been telling their congregants for years that Jews are the “children of apes and pigs”?
Newsweek’s posting of the “directives”, as you call them, are no big deal. This type of guide book, or “Hasbarah Handbook” as been around at least for the past two decades through multiple presidencies. You’d know that if you were the least bit knowledgeable. Why don’t you check it out here rather than making all sorts of assumptions.
There is no evidence that more Israelis are leaving today than were leaving, say, in the 1960s or 70s. And there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence (promulgated by Helena on some unknown basis here) that these young people are any more “peaceniks” than anyone else. (In fact, those Israelis in the States tend to lean more to the right.)
And the “nasty racism” is, as I pointed out represented by a total of four interviews presented on video tape by an obviously less than impartial source.
In short, Steve, I consider myself to be infinitely more knowledgeable than either you (who hasn’t stated on what you base you knowledge of Israel) or Helena (who really only gets to Israel in transit to the occupied territories with time out for a quick latte with her elderly friends).
Steve, it might be instructive for you to see who Helena has banned or warned, and who she hasn’t.
JES,
We’re not talking about Hamas we’re talking about Israel and its citizens who claim, around the world, to occupy a moral high ground. You know as well as I do that this racism and hatred isn’t just the domain of a few teenagers who can’t hold their beer. It goes to the very soul of the nation and is fomented, exacerbated and utilized by a great many in the political, military and religious establishment.
I was, for many years, a skeptical supporter of Israel. Until I went there. Have you been to East Jerusalem as Friday prayers are ending and watched the Israeli Arab Muslims run the gauntlet of jeering, leering Israeli soldiers and policemen? Have you stood by Rachel’s Tomb in Bethlehem and seen the armour-clad Israeli soldiers, standing behind concrete blocks while they pick off ten year olds with rubber bullets, laughing and cheering whenever they get a headshot. Yes, the children are throwing stones (note: the bigger the stone, the less far they’re able to throw it) but let’s dissect a rubber bullet shall we? A steel ball-bearing (something like used to be fired from muskets) wrapped in a coating of rubber and then fired from a rifle (that being the great advance on the musket, greatly increasing the weapons accuracy) at 100m. Imagine, JES what that does to the skull of the little ruffian. And now imagine members of the worlds most moral army laughing as the little devil gets carried off to hospital.
But you’ve never been there have you JES? You wouldn’t go to look at that, would you JES? And I’m only talking here about the real soft stuff: not Southern Lebanon ’06 or Gaza ’08. You say you’re knowledgeable JES but you’ve only read something. Or have you? Do you really know and not tell?
So, JES, my knowledge is as a witness, I’ve been there, seen it and was sickened by it. What is the basis of yours? Who are you? What are you?
You use a tired old debating trick (really that’s all it is) in many of your posts – casting doubt on your opponents intellect or knowledge or understanding of 2 + 2. But you attach it to something that reveals your own ignorance. What is such a big deal about the Newsweek story is that they’ve posted it at all. And the message to their readership is that the Israeli’s and the people who work for Israel in the US are, at best, being economical with the truth. You don’t seem to realize just how much protection Israel has been receiving all these years from the US media. I truly believe that were it not for that bias your country would have been under crippling sanctions for many years. That cover is being removed (because the present administration seems to be doing a Kennedy School 101) and the stories that European and Israeli papers have been running for decades are now starting to appear here. The times are changing JES.
“In fact, those Israelis in the States tend to lean more to the right”
I don’t think it matters whether they’re left or right, doves or hawks; they’re leaving and handing over to the Ukranian’s. Good luck with that.
In short JES, your infinite knowledge doesn’t seem to stretch very far and you’re poorer for it.
Finally, my opinion on banning is not to favour one side or another and, if it consoles, was prompted by acting against “Ruth”.
ou know as well as I do that this racism and hatred isn’t just the domain of a few teenagers who can’t hold their beer. It goes to the very soul of the nation
Whoa, the SOUL OF THE NATION IS HATRED? Jeez I wonder if this counts as a crude generalization, or because “Steve Connors” didn’t say the magic word ALL its considered ‘dialogue building’.
A typical crude generalization or dialogue building?
“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”
–Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994
erm – a crude generalization. now who the heck is rabbi yaacov perrin? Am I supposed to know? And why should his peculiar view be generalized to represent the beliefs of AN ENTIRE COUNTRY?
Is the theory that by peddling these scary tales of Jewish suckiness that Israeli Jews are supposed to feel shame for their innate evil? Or is it to make you feel better about your own bottomless hostility? In any case its counterproductive and quite childish.
erm – another crude generalization by an unknown childish peddler.(?)
“[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.”-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the ‘Beasts,”‘ New Statesman, June 25,1982.
erm – maybe you know or have heard of Israeli Gen. Rafael Eitan whose been quoted in the NYT.
“We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel ….. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours …
When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do will be to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle.” — Israeli Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan, Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot, 13 Apr 83 and New York Times, 14 Apr 83 .
omop, your cutting and pasting skills are to be commended, and your facility with “Bartletts Quotations – Zionist perfidy edition 2002”
Is that all you’ve got, Vadim?
Soldiers with a deeply-ingrained racist hatred behave like the French Army in Algeria, and kill 300,000-500,000 people in 8 years of medium-scale counter-insurgency. Israel deployed on the same scale (15,000-30,000 men, the same number as the actual French “mobile reserve” that engaged the ALN in Algeria on a constant basis) and still only managed to kill a few thousand people, total, in Gaza and Lebanon from ’06 to ’09. So obviously the feelings are either not there or are not being translated into “mad minutes” directed at passerby or incidents like Amritsar or Sétif (10,000-15,000 dead). And the IDF knows how to conduct precision counterinsurgency.
Have you been to East Jerusalem as Friday prayers are ending and watched the Israeli Arab Muslims run the gauntlet of jeering, leering Israeli soldiers and policemen? Have you stood by Rachel’s Tomb in Bethlehem and seen the armour-clad Israeli soldiers, standing behind concrete blocks while they pick off ten year olds with rubber bullets, laughing and cheering whenever they get a headshot.
Of course I have, but the above description makes me doubt that you were.
Have you ever seen the Muslims after Friday prayers dropping blocks of concrete on the heads of the Jewish worshipers at that wall below? Or have you seen or even heard of the ambushes with live ammunition by Fatah, Hamas and IJ “militanant” at Rachel’s tomb and all along the road connecting Bethlehem and Jerusalem.
You claim to have “been involved at the sharp end of some of the worst armed conflicts since WW2”. Well, that would make you pretty super-annuated – even older than me. Just when were you in Israel Steve?
Investigation–Example 1: Fisk suggests that Eitan routinely referred to the Palestinians as “cockroaches” He states this as fact, giving no source, but other internet sites refer to an April 13, 1983 article by Gad Becker in the Israeli daily, Yediot Ahronot. This original source of the quote, however, indicates that Eitan’s comment was atypical, made in specific reference to Arab violence. According to Becker, this “uncharacteristic”(as he puts it) and controversial comment was made by outgoing Chief of Staff Eitan during a discussion of how best to deal with Arab violence in the West Bank. In responding to suggestions by Knesset members that the army should stop stone throwers by shooting at their feet or throwing stones back, Eitan reportedly said:
The Arabs will never win over us by throwing stones. Our response must be a nationalist Zionist response. For every stone that’s thrown–we will build ten settlements. If 100 settlements will exist–and they will–between Nablus and Jerusalem, stones will not be thrown. If this will be the situation, then the Arabs will only be able to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle.
Summary: A single (albeit controversial) remark made in a specific context is misrepresented as a generalized, routine slur by an Israeli leader
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=775
Obviously, Omop cut and paste this from one of the many Pallywood Publicist Handbooks appearing on the Internet.
Oh yes, and guess what? I searched the New York Times for 1 April 1983 through 30 April 1983 for Rafael Eitan and guess what? Nada. Gurnish. Maybe, Omop you should try to back up your cutting and pasting with some original research, or at least verify what you cut before pasting.
Its a trick we always use….antisemitism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUGVPBO9_cA
Hmmmm omap. Do you see anybody here that makes frequent use of the “anti-Semitic canard”? I think that if you checked back you’d find a lot more of the “Islamophobe (whatever that means) canard”, or simply the “racist canard”, which are, in most cases simply designed to shut the other side up. Pathetic.
The lesson in ‘feel the hate’ is that if youre a zionist jew, you can do what you like…until the zionist money men are in jail for corrupting politicians and journalists.
such as this gem from philippe naughton:
‘The trip was the first by members of the Neturei Karta sect since Hamas – whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel – seized control of the tiny coastal territory two years ago’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ tol…icle6717847.ece
someone write to Philippe and tell him Hamas seized nothing
I want to tell the WORLD a Story
Nice video salah. from the comments:
“thanks for watching and commenting and ameen, May Allah be with palestine and may Satan be with Israel.. ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM
back at ya. Salah, is there a program that does cut-n-pasting automatically? I have a lot to do today.
vadim,
We got photos and picture of Bin Laden and Aymaan ath-Thwahiri which more been cut-n-pasting as been so from time to time…..
But “I want to tell the WORLD a Story” each single photo was published many times in the main news media of course not Murdoch oulets.
If you try to argue these photos acts by Isralies for the last 60 yers if not more and you dout it who are tehse crminlas who done it.
Then this is very clear this a blindness man living in 21 century unless you think these are cut-n-pasting of Nazi horrific crimes to Jews…..
Lots of dead mujahadin in the video, Salah, in their black Hamas uniforms. Would you dishonor their sacrifice by claiming them as hapless victims?
‘Whats considered quite okay in the Arab public discourse”
Al arabiya edition. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDqWGtykYNE&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Looks my word misunderstood here.
My point I raised here the story photos is real from dially Israeli crimes in Palestine, most of them we saw in the main stram media.
vadim, if you object those pohotos prove for us these photos are fack.
don’t put your Rubbish here…..
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719
“Of course I have, but the above description makes me doubt that you were.”
Amazing what the disinterested eye can see. Perhaps this is all such a commonplace to you that you no longer recognize it for what it is.
“Have you ever seen the Muslims after Friday prayers dropping blocks of concrete on the heads of the Jewish worshipers at that wall below? Or have you seen or even heard of the ambushes with live ammunition by Fatah, Hamas and IJ “militanant”[sic] at Rachel’s tomb and all along the road connecting Bethlehem and Jerusalem.”
Two things to say about this JES: firstly, no I haven’t seen – either in person or in news reports – anything about Muslims dropping concrete blocks on heads. Do you have a link? Were said Muslims arrested? Charged? Imprisoned? Shot dead? Was justice done JES? All these questions assume a reality to the allegation. And why wouldn’t Hamas, Fatah or IJ have snipers along the road? And the target is? But, once again, this was not the subject under discussion, was it?
“You claim to have “been involved at the sharp end of some of the worst armed conflicts since WW2″. Well, that would make you pretty super-annuated – even older than me. Just when were you in Israel Steve?”
Perhaps older, JES, perhaps not. But based on your postings here and elsewhere, undoubtedly wiser.
I was in Israel in 2000, at the beginning of the second intifada. I remained there for two weeks but decided not to return. Way too much targeting of journalists by IDF making the risk on return equation weighted too heavily toward risk.