Israel’s quite unchallenged (and US-supplied) Air Force has killed more than 200 people in waves of attacks against Gaza today. Most of the locations targeted were reportedly linked to the main security force in Gaza, that provided by the elected Hamas movement. Many of those killed were police officers, including 40 cadets just completing their training.
In his well-regarded ‘Talking Points memo’ blog, Josh Marshal shamefully titles his short post on this massacre “Cycle”. He also describes the attack as “retaliatory”, though he does not say for what.
There have been numerous, highly asymmetrical exchanges of fire between the security forces of Gaza and those of Israel in the past days– as in the past three years.
In addition, ever since Hamas won the Palestinian parliamentary elections in January 2006, Israel has maintained an extremely tight siege around Gaza that has blighted the lives of the Strip’s 1.5 million people quite unjustifiably, including causing numerous deaths.
Gaza maintains no siege around Israel.
Britain’s Daily Telegraph may be a rightwing newspaper. But it has a far more sober attitude to the truth of the Gaza-Israel dynamic than Josh Marshall does.
The DT’s Tim Butcher reports from Jerusalem today :
- Nine Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza since it withdrew all settlers and soldiers from the territory in September 2005.
Over the same period, at least 1,400 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli security forces in Gaza, according to figures compiled by B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights group.
Israel’s decision to act came after a six-month truce with Hamas, which ran out on Dec 19.
Josh Marshall’s type of “cycle of violence” and “Israeli retaliation” language is, however, the way the vast majority of people in the US political elite (mis-)portray and (mis-)understand the situation in Gaza.
The Israeli cabinet’s decision to unleash the present tsunami of violence has no discernible strategic relevance. There can be no serious strategic thinker in Israel who imagines that this kind of massacre will suddenly “persuade” Hamas to cry “uncle” and accede to Israel’s longstanding demands that it perform what is, in effect, an unconditional surrender to Israel.
Ha’aretz’s Amos Harel describes the assault as Israel’s version of “Shock and Awe,” explicitly comparing it to the US assault on Iraq and Halutz’s original July 2006 assault on Lebanon. (He fails to note that both of those attacks ended up with their overall strategic “achievements” for the assaulting government being deep in the negative column.
He writes:
- The major x-factor, of course, is not related to the operational capabilities of the air force, but whether or not to launch a ground invasion. Will the government resolve to do so and is the IDF capable of successfully carrying out a mission which it failed to accomplish against Hezbollah? It is reasonable to assume that the picture will become more clearer within three to four days. Until then, the IAF is expected to continue its assault which will be complimented by limited activity from relatively small ground units.
As the situation appears now, Israel has assigned modest goals for itself: weakening Hamas rule in Gaza and restoring a prolonged lull along the border under terms that are more convenient for us following an internationally imposed compromise.
Under that scenario, the Israeli leadership is expecting that after some period of time the US will step in and help it negotiate the kind of political outcome it wants with (or without?) Hamas.
This seems unlikely to unfold as planned. The US has no effective president right now. Who will the Americans deal with, in the Arab world, to try to get Hamas to accede to its and Israel’s demands?
Egypt acted as intermediary in the June tahdi’eh between Israel and Hamas. But this time round, Hamas has already signaled its strong discontent with Egypt’s position. Meantime, Hamas’s co-believers from the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood seem more ready than ever to intervene in public inside Egypt in support of Hamas.
Actually, what seems to be shaping up is a major, possibly regionwide confrontation between, on the one side, the many pro-Hamas forces in Egypt, Jordan, and elsewhere in the region, and on the other, the US and Israel and the Arab regimes that have until now been dependent on the US.
Olmert, Livni, and Ehud Barak may well not have factored this into account. It may well be the case that the considerations uppermost in their minds were the very provincial considerations of two governing parties that had been badly tainted by the outcome of the 33-day war of 2006 that are now going into a big general election fight in early February.
The Olmert government would certainly not be the first Israeli government that decided it wanted to launch its election campaign with a “salutary” military attack against some Arab neighbors! (Shimon Peres in 1996 comes immediately to mind.)
Deep condolences to all the families, on both sides of the line, who have lost loved ones in the present round of fighting. One Israeli has been reported dead from Hamas’s retaliatory fire.
Pray for all those terrorized by the attacks.
Note, too, that one other casualty of this assault is very likely to be Abu Mazen’s role in the Palestinian movement.
I wonder how many Mumbai type massacres will result from this latest Zionist outrage against a near defenseless population.
Important to realize that this is only the latest of hundreds of Zionist massacres since the state of Israel was created in 1948. If ever a nation deserved to labelled a “terrorist state” it is israel.
The BBC already has the usual staged pictures, and the terrorists already play the victim role. Launching 100 rockets a day, refusal to renew the ceasefire, firing on land workers on the other side, explosives on border posts, and somehow they cry about victimhood.
What did they think daily rocket barrages across a border bring in any rational place? Or is the strip run by irrational Shirins?
The people elected Hamas, Hamas is clear on its aims and its tactics, The people brought it on themselves, ain’t democracy great when it backfires on the terrorists?
I don’t think the belligerent rhetoric from either of the last two posts are helpful in any way, demonizing one side and putting no blame on the other.
Inkan, do you really think calling attention to a defnseless, powerless, population that has been held hostage in a strip of land, deprived of food and water, is demonizing izzyland? How does a demon have to act so that it can be called a demon? According to your finely=honed definition, purposely starving and dismembering children is not enough to warrant calling the izzies a demon. What do you need, Inkan?
For those that do understand what a demon is,
Write to that simiam millenialist that still occupies the White House and ask him why Amnerica pays Israel to kill Palestinians?
Write to the European External Relations Commissioner and ask her when the European Union is going the impose sancions on that racist, murderous, theocratic regime in izzyland.
benita.ferrero-waldner at ec.europa.eu
I have just spoken to my friend Majdi, who is a physician in Gaza City. He is a kind and gentle man with a beautiful, sweet young wife, and a daughter about one year old. He is sharing with me his personal diary accounts, and I share them with his permission. This is what I have received so far:
This day was a horrible one. The mobile services was out of reach due to excessive pressure on them and as a result of the 60 F16 fighters which were in the sky of Gaza.
I left the clinic where I work at 11:20 am to attend the defense of a Master dissertation of a fried of mine which was scheduled to be held at the Palestinian Red Crescent Society building in Gaza. While in the taxi on my way to Gaza, we at the taxi heard a huge explosion, then we saw 2 huge Mushroom-like dust getting up into the sky. The taxi driver decided to change his direction from Salah Eldin Street to the Sea shore way to reach our final distention in Gaza City.
I did not realized that the 2 huge bombings that I saw were in the small suburb where my apartment is located. I reached the Palestinian Red Crescent Society building, which neighbors one of the security buildings which was hit by Israeli Air Forces F16 fighters in Gaza City and the headquarter of the Ministry of Prisoners’ affairs, which was also destroyed. I crossed on my feet the ruins of a destroyed building as the taxi could not cross them.
Important to point out that those feeble Hamas rocket attacks on Israel were in response to a brutal blockade that probably has killed more Gazans via starvation, disease, and lack of medical treatment than even today’s air raids.
The Zionist regime has once again shown how utterly heartless, brutal and evil it is.
I can just imagine inkan’s ancestors outside the Warsaw Ghetto saying I don’t think the belligerent rhetoric from either of the last two posts are helpful in any way, demonizing one side and putting no blame on the other.
Inkan, you seem to think that statements of fact are “belligerent rhetoric”. Or are you claiming that there have not been hundreds of Zionist massacres since the State of Israel was created?
This unjustified attack is absolutely outrageous. Quite disproportional to any attack made.
I asked myself why I made that statement. It is because the bombing provokes rage, because the bombing of innocent people is unacceptable.
If anyone wants to organise an “International Brigade” to defend Gaza, I’m ready to go. I’m not joking, though I have the age of Helena.
“Defend Israel” I’ve just heard the Israeli spokesperson say on the BBC say. It’s a joke, what fear does Israel have of its neighbours?
May I point out that Josh Marshall sourced a Reuters reporter’s version of what happened today, I see VERY little if any of Mr. Marshall’s own words about todays horrible events.
I don’t think it’s fair OR accurate to take Mr. Marshall to task for stating an opinion or being perfunctory.
On the other hand, a MUCH more clear view of the events today can be found at Moon Of Alabama and among those responding to Brendan’s thoughts . . . .
This was and is a horrendous act perpetrated by Israel. But it’s a long going war, and story, with multiple pieces and parts to it all.
Going back to 1917, ’47, and to now there are a multitude of issues including control of transport, development, distribution of oil and gas in the region, Israel as US Proxy, Israel as its own nation to appease WW2 guilt on the part of the world and the religious issues of course.
AND there’s the little manner of that tract of natural gas off the Gazan Coast that BELONGS to GAZA and the Palistinean’s as of ’94 Oslo Accords.
A natural gas tract that Hammas recently has said they’d cut Israel out of getting any, with Gazan’s preferring to sell it all to Egypt once developed and producing.
Josh Marshall is not bad guy in the room, not hardly. Ma’am.
from Ha’aretz:
Six months ago Israel asked and received a cease-fire from Hamas. It unilaterally violated it when it blew up a tunnel, while still asking Egypt to get the Islamic group to hold its fire. Are conditions enabling the return of a ceasefire no longer available? Hamas has clear conditions for its extension: The opening of the border crossings for goods and cessation of IDF attacks in Gaza, as outlined in the original agreement. Later, Hamas wants the cease-fire to be extended to the West Bank. Israel, for its part, is justifiably demanding a real calm in Gaza; that no Qassam or mortar shell be fired by either Hamas, Islamic Jihad or any other group.
Essentially, Israel is telling Hamas it is willing to recognize its control of Gaza on the condition that it assumes responsibility for the security of the territory, like Hezbollah controls southern Lebanon. It is likely that this will be the outcome of a wide-scale operation in the Gaza Strip if Israel decides it does not want to rule Gaza directly. Why, then, not forgo the war and agree to these conditions now?
Curious Ha’aretz presumption…. (Israel was hardly willing to concede such a Hizb. role for Lebanon, ’til after the 2006 fiasco)
To the contrary, I rather thought the “logic” of Israel’s ongoing strangling of Gaza was to punish the residents there for exercising their right to vote in a manner “not foreseen” by Sharansky, Bush, Rice, et. al.
Rather looks like the churlish blitzing of Gaza is more the same logic that failed in Lebanon…. (e.g., the country largely sympathized with Hizbullah, rather than cast them out)
Meanwhile, where is Banki Moon?
Blah-blah-blah…terrorists…self-defense…no partner for peace…blah-yadda. If anyone at all has any interest in trying to sort out what “provoked” the latest Israeli insult to the Geneva Conventions, let us recall that there in fact was a “truce/cease-fire” called by Hamas several months ago, and despite MULTIPLE incursions by the IDF, and despite the odious economic blockade starving out 1.5M Palestinians, the truce held until punitive raids by Israel forced responses by Hamas—largely ineffectual retaliatory rocket attacks aimed at Siderot. Now, of course, the shithouse government of Israel claim “violations” by Hamas, and here we are, yet again, a hugely disproportionate response by Israel, employing the “Grapes of Wrath” strategy, knowing full well that no government in the West will call Israel to account. How many more shameful, genocidal actions by Israel will be perpetrated before there is world-wide condemnation of such actions?
Israel, Zimbabwe, Sudan…they are all of a piece.
And may their god have mercy upon their wretched souls.
Hot off the press from the NY Times:
Israeli Gaza Strike Kills More Than 225
by TAGHREED EL-KHODARY and ETHAN BRONNER
Published: December 27, 2008
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/world/middleeast/28mideast.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
*****
“… Governments that dislike Hamas, like Egypt’s, Jordan’s and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, are in a delicate position. They blame Hamas for having taken over Gaza by force 18 months ago in the aftermath of its election victory in the Palestinian Parliament, and they oppose its rocket fire on Israeli towns and communities. …”
*****
Electorat emptor?
I’m a common blue collar working person living in America. It’s taken many many years for me to grasp the concepts involved in finding a just solution those living in Palestine.
Isreal has lost all support from me, forever.
If such obivous conclusions have now filtered down to people in my strata, then it’s only a matter of time before Isreal is finished.
Thanks doc for the catch:
“They blame Hamas for having taken over Gaza by force 18 months ago in the aftermath of its election victory in the Palestinian Parliament.”
how odd indeed, they win an election and they think they should run the place.
Wuz next?
“the neocons blame the democrats for having taken over Washington in the aftermath of their victory.” (oh, but that’s different – they can control that Party from within)
Don
I wonder if Gaza is a feint?
I saw a mention of the Gaza operation having been six months in planning in Haaretz this morning.
We saw the final act of the planning played out when the Israeli Air Force flew to Greece as a dress rehearsal.
This afternoon I saw the Haaretz report of Ayatollah Khamenei’s speech.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050626.html
I can find no mention of
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a religious decree to Muslims around the world on Sunday, ordering them to defend Palestinians against Israel’s attacks on Gaza, state television said.
“All Palestinian combatants and all the Islamic world’s pious people are obliged to defend the defenceless women, children and people in Gaza in any way possible. Whoever is killed in this legitimate defense is considered a martyr,” state television quoted Khamenei as saying in a statement. (source Haaretz)
on Irna’s report of the speech. Translator games again?
We would now be looking for some form of retaliation to provoke escalation.
I suspect we need two ticks of escalation to get the go for the flight to Isfahan.
I wonder if the Russians have an Airborne Early Warning that can see as far as Bandar Abbas from over the Caspian.
I am not sure I like Mr Cheney’s New Year Message.
Here is Khamenei’s statement in context. As I read it, he is not calling for military action against Israel, but rather for a united front of governmental action by Muslim countries through the OIC(particularly the leaders of Arab states, who he seems to be chiding for their lack of concern) to call for trying Israel’s leaders for war crimes in an international forum. “The heads of the usurping regime must be tried and punished in person for their crimes and the protracted siege.” (Khamenei does not appear to anticipate any intervention by the UN Security Council on the Palestinians’ behalf.)
Haaretz has taken his statement out of context and framed it to suit its own agenda regarding both the Palestinians and Iran.
Here is Khamenei’s statement in context. As I read it, he is not calling for military action against Israel, but rather for a united front of governmental action by Muslim countries through the OIC(particularly the leaders of Arab states, who he seems to be chiding for their lack of concern) to call for trying Israel’s leaders for war crimes in an international forum. “The heads of the usurping regime must be tried and punished in person for their crimes and the protracted siege.” (Khamenei does not appear to anticipate any intervention by the UN Security Council on the Palestinians’ behalf.)
Haaretz has taken his statement out of context and framed it to suit its own agenda regarding both the Palestinians and Iran.
< http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8710082112
Iran SL Ali Khamenei’s Message (Dec. 28, 17:34):
Supreme Leader Condemns Zionists’ Atrocities against Palestinians
TEHRAN (FNA)- Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei issued a statement Sunday on the horrendous tragedy of Gaza bloodbath in the hand of the Zionists.
In his statement, the Leader strongly condemned the heinous complicity of the criminal Bush’s regime with the Zionists, adding that the silence of some international bodies and some Arab states provided for the crimes.
Ayatollah Khamenei declared Monday as day of general mourning and called on all Muslim people and free men of the world to render their duty towards the tragic issue. The full text of the statement is as follows.
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
“We belong to Allah, and to Him we return”
The horrific atrocity of the Zionist regime in Gaza in which hundreds of innocent men, women and children were massacred pushed the curtain of deception from the blood thirsty face of the Zionist wolves and noted the negligence about the presence of this hostile disbeliever in the heart of the lands of Islamic Umma.
The horrendous ordeal is very heavy and moving for any Muslim not to say for any free and noble human being in any corner of the world. However, the larger ordeal is the encouraging silence of some Arab governments which claim to be Muslims. Which ordeal could be larger than the fact that Muslim governments, otherwise expected to support the innocent Gaza people against the usurping and hostile regime, adopted a mood which encouraged the criminal Zionist authorities to impertinently consider them as in harmony with the large tragedy?
Which answer the heads of those countries have prepared to give to the Messenger of Allah (S.A.)? Which answer they have prepared to give to their own nations which are indeed mourning the tragedy? Indeed today the heart of the Egyptian, Jordanian and the people of other Islamic countries is overwhelmed with sorrow about the bloodshed as well as the protracted food and medicine embargos.
By his complicity in the large crime, the criminal Bush’s administration in the last days of his shameful rule more darkened the face of the American regime than ever and added to its dossier of war crimes. The European governments with their indifference and sometimes their complicity in the large tragedy once more proved that their claims of advocacy for human rights are false and also showed they are present in the front against Islam and Muslims. Now, I ask the scholars and Alims of the Arab world and the chiefs of the Egyptian al-Azhar center “isn’t it the time to feel the threat facing Islam and Muslims?” “Isn’t it the time to fulfill the mandatory act of standing against any bullying ruler?” Is an additional, more divulging scene of complicity between the hostile disbelievers and the hypocrites of umma in repressing the Muslims than the current Gaza and Palestine developments is needed to prompt you to feel responsibility?
I have also a question to ask the media and the intellectuals of the world of Islam and especially the Arab world. For how long you have decided to remain indifferent regarding your media and intellectual responsibility?
Has there remained any more face for the scandal-hit human rights bodies of the west and the so-called “Security” Council of the United Nations to lose?
All the Palestinian Mujahid and other faithful of the world of Islam are supposed to defend the defenseless people of Gaza. Anyone who is killed in the legitimate and holy defense is a martyr and is hoped to be among the ranks of the martyrs of Badr and Ohud battles in the presence of the Messenger of Allah (S.A.).
The Organization of the Islamic Conference must fulfill its historical responsibility in the sensitive conditions and form a solid front, bereft of inaction and preservations, against the Zionist regime. The Zionist regime must be punished by the Muslim governments. The heads of the usurping regime must be tried and punished in person for their crimes and the protracted siege.
The Muslim nations are able to materialize the demands through firm resolve. The duty of politicians, Alims and intellectuals in this juncture is much heavier than others.
I declare Monday a day of general mourning in commemoration of the Gaza tragedy and instruct the country’s authorities to fulfill their duties regarding the sad incident.
“And those who do wrong shall surely know by what overturning they will he overturned”
Seyed Ali Khamenei
December 28, 2008
Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. Obama’s silence is truly mystifying for it makes the new administration complicit in Israeli actions. Before taking office, Israel has already eroded his political capital and raised doubts about his intentions in the Arab world.
As Daniel Levy points out, “recruiters to the most radical of causes are again cashing in. If Osama Bin Laden is indeed a cave-dweller these days then U.S. intel should be listening out for a booming echo of laughter. Demonstrations across the Arab world and contributors to the ever-proliferating Arabic language news media and blogosphere hold the U.S., and not just Israel, responsible for what happened today (and that is a position taken, for good reasons, by sensible folk, not hard-liners). America’s allies in the region are again running for cover. America’s standing, its interests and security are all deeply affected.”
http://www.prospectsforpeace.com/2008/12/what_next_on_gazaisrael_and_wh.html
Change–such a nice slogan!
It is always sad to lear about human loss. It would sadden anyone who cares about human life and dignity (last saturday’s death toll in Gaza was the highest for a single day in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since 1948). Feeling anger, grief and confusion to see how much the people of Gaza have been enduring on a daily basis for so long…too long. The silent Palestinian genocide made of humiliation, repression and massive killings of civilians has precedents. Only Palestinian resistance will put an end to Israel’s aggression and occupation. Occupation is by legal definition a temporary situation. An independent Palestinian State is coming but for the time being the bloodshed will most likely continue until there is a morally tolerable settlement of a conflict that calls for an independent and sovereign Palestinian State with East Jerusalem as its capital.
If not for the closing of Gaza, we would have been on the ground now to help. Once there, we would maybe understand what the killing of score of innocent civilians, most of whom are women and children and the massive destruction of Palestinian infrastructure has to do with the security of Israel…JUST MAYBE!!!
Mohamed and Djaouida
Thanks Isadora
What you have published might help stop things getting out of hand.
The UK Foreign Secretary has called for an Urgent Ceasefire.
The Times has further twsited the interpretation of the Haaretz text.
Pope Benedict said that he was deeply troubled by the violence in “the native land of Jesus” He said: “I implore an end to that violence, which must be condemned in every manifestation and for a renewal of the truce in the Gaza Strip.”
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, however, appeared to support a call, made by Hamas, to launch revenge attacks against Israel, claiming anyone killed in such an action was a “martyr”.
“All Palestinian combatants and all the Islamic world’s pious people are obliged to defend the defenceless women, children and people in Gaza in any way possible. Whoever is killed in this legitimate defence is considered a martyr,” he said.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, said his Fatah movement, which rules the West Bank, had urged Hamas to renew its ceasefire with Israel and not cancel it. Source Times Online
In my church this morning, the pastor mentioned Israel’s firing of missiles on Gaza and the killing of hundreds in a matter of minutes. He raised the same point about the “cycle” of killing, but a number of us in the congregation later asked the pastor when was the last time that any Gazan or Palestinian, or Arab for that matter, killed hundreds of Israelis in a week, let alone one month’s time or one year’s time.
The pastor looked startled by our question. A number of us have been seeking answers to puzzling questions about Israel during the last few years. The pastor repeats the same almost “Biblical” accounts of today’s events in the Middle East. He has made three trips to Israel, and receives subsidies from the Israeli government to bring worshippers to the Holy Land. But this morning I could tell that even our pastor is puzzled and doubtful. I could tell when I saw his startled eyes. He looked doubtful of his words in the morning sermon, doubtful of many of his words over the last few years.
A number of young men in our proud town have lost their lives in the ongoing wars abroad. The pastor has shared the tears of the families of these young men. We all have shed tears for these young men. But the wars and the fighting and the killing abroad now seem so contrived to us all. Israeli leaders today say their military actions are part of the US “War on Terrorism.” But Israel has been fighting the same long war for decades. In fact it needs to be said that Israel is more often the cause of this long war.
More of us in the congregation have been reading about the modern history of Israel, and the horrific way that Israeli leaders treated the original people of Palestine. I have asked the pastor to share in reading one book, and by the light in his eye this morning, once his doubt turned to discovery, I could tell that he has been reading the book. I could tell he is seeing clearly on the issues. The horrors of Israel’s long war are becoming more clear to all of us.
How can we stop these horrors of the Israeli government, when even the newsmakers spin these horrors upside down and backward? It all seems like one big ridiculous lie. A lie that everyone knows is not true. How can peace and forgiveness be restored to the world when there is no reckoning with the truth? Our churches and our towns need a new reckoning with the truth. Our society needs a reckoning with the truth.
I wonder why America is sinking into financial ruin, burdened by debt and excessive war costs, and yet it seems the state and economy of Israel thirst for more killing and destruction. Exactly whose war is this war, and why is it being fought?
Leroy Johnson,
Thanks for your story that very encouraging singe not for The pastor startled eyes but fro the mind of people like you that follow the church and listen to The pastors like this one Zionist Israeli minded Pastor than Biblical …
But its very good sign people weak up of listing again and again to sermonises and speeches that cost human lives and killing people for no reason by some who diluted Zionists Israeli driven minds telling you and other Americans it’s biblical.
While there are voices in western world talking about Koran and his words for Muslims there is more what bible telling you and interpret about ME and its people that make your Pastor made his speeches about ME.
and why is it being fought?
Read your Bible discover what words regards to this matter?
Genesis 15:18 reads:
Did you asked your Pastor what this in the Bible:
In 1898, Herzl planned to ask the Ottoman sultan for a territory stretching from the Egyptian frontier to the Euphrates.
Isadora,
Here is Khamenei’s statement in context. As I read it, he is not calling for military action against Israel, but rather for a united front of governmental action by Muslim countries through the OIC(particularly the leaders of Arab states,
Isadora, before talking about the gangster Ali Khamenei’s speeches and his out of blue speeches, is he the Mullah stood in Friday sermons telling that Iran helped US for invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq?
Isadora, tell us what Iran did for Palestinians from 1948 till now specially from 1979 when Mullah came to power more that Khomeini’s KISS to Yaser Arafat?
Tell US what Iranians doing in Iraq for the last 6 years, now Americans officials starting telling that Iran represent by Quads Forces (Iran’s Mullah Forces) was very helpful in Iraq helping US to CONTROL Iraq?
Please save your comment for yourself,
“Where will it end?”
It will end when the Palestinians accept that they’ve been defeated, end their war and recognize Israel. It’s entirely up to the Palestinians. They began the war and have the responsibility to end it. In the meantime they will continue to suffer and die. But they have the power to end it. Recognize Israel and international law today!
say Salah, you miss entirely Isadora’s very helpful context for what Khamenei was saying. Isy wasn’t defending him, per se, rather providing the full text that the ha’aretz report missed — and in so doing, lances an excuse that some may be hatching to change the subject to attacking Iran.
Don Bacon,
You have hit the nail on the head with: “Why, then, not forgo the war and agree to these conditions now?”
I would like to hear more on this tactically and strategically…. You may be best to elaborate and answer your own question. This seems to be what everyone in the middle could agree on but is the response a play to the extremes of the parties, or something much more fundamental?
How can this be projected into the United Arab Councils (I think they sponsored it) full page advertisements in the New York Times very bold, responsible call for peace, and use of the media to focus on the core agreements and the benefits to both sides?
NEW WASHPOST SOLUTION IN EDITORIAL: ZIONIST SETTLERS *ON* LAND, PALESTINIANS *UNDER* LAND!
“Self-Defense,” sais the WashPost”! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700976_pf.htmlMore of the criminal whitewash by a partisan press. Well, now that we are broke, not only will Israel present us with a bill for its “needs”– as killer and as bon vivant– but we also face the rage of an Ismaic World that knows the truth as well as would anyone who simply cares. But in their case, it’s a matter of will to self-sacrifice for revenge. Israelis won’t do that as most of the settlers at the root of the problem were drawn with a sweet deal of land and houses stolen from Palestinians and built-up by US taxpayers’ dollars. Now that we are broke, we Americans will more clearly see the Zionist lebenraum strategy at work and how much it is costing us when we can least afford it. Let the debate that Zionism cannot possibly win begin.
They began the war and have the responsibility to end it.
Here we got another Zionist minded guy telling a big lie?
Are the Palestinians started war? Could you present your evidences here?
Let say did those Palestinians came to your land and your house took by force or did they threaten you to leave your land/house otherwise you will be massacred?
In Which fantasy you live?
“Obama’s silence is truly mystifying for it makes the new administration complicit in Israeli actions.”
You sound surprised.
“Before taking office, Israel has already eroded his political capital and raised doubts about his intentions in the Arab world.”
What doubts? There hae never been any doubts about his intentions in the Arab world, and particularly in Iraq. Obama made his intentions very clear early on in the campaign. As for his intentions toward Palestinians in relation to Israel, those are even more clear. As a long-time friend of mine in Gaza said to me on election day “Obama will not help us.”
Ah, once again, mike provides the comic relief!
Thanks for providing us all with a good chuckle, mike. It’s always good to insert a bit of comedy into a series of deadly serious moments.
Thanks, Scott. Saleh totally missed my point! The Iranians have actually done very little for the Palestinians since the Iranian revolution in 1979, beside providing rhetorical support and berating Arab leaders for not fulfilling their responsibilities.
I highly recommend Trita Parsi’s book *Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran and the United States.* When Arafat and his cohorts showed up in Teheran and made themselves at home during the first week of the revolution 1979, Iran’s clerics expressed outrage at the un-Islamic behavior of their uninvited guests. Khomeini actually recommended that Arafat embrace the principles of Islamic non-violence that had enabled the Iranian revolution to succeed, and become more religiously observant.
As Parsi points out, the Palestinians figured out very quickly that they would get alot of words from the Iranian revolutionary regime, not any material support. Khomeini gave the PLO the Israeli Embassy, but he used it to keep a watchful eye on Arafat. PLO offices opened up in other parts of Iran, particularly Arabic-speaking Ahvaz, were shut down a few months after they were opened.
Oh, the Iranians had a coloring contest for kids about a “world without Zionism” and proclaimed “Qods Day” as an annual day of rallying in support of the Palestinian cause, but these actually were more of a mask for (or substitute for) Iranian inaction than concrete measures to bring about the victory of the Palestinian. Did the Iranians send any troops between 1979 and the present to fight for the Palestinians? The Lebanese? The Iraqis? No! Are they sending them now? No. Iran has sent a Red Crescent ship with humanitarian relief, which the Israelis have blocked from entering.
There’s a narrative being constantly reiterated by Israelis of all political persuasions–left, right and center–and appropriated by American neocons, that tries to consistently make the case that Hamas and Hezbollah do what they do solely because they are puppets of Iran, and without Iranian support Hamas and Hezbollah would have long been eviscerated by Israel. Iran drives all the violence in the Middle East, according to this narrative, It was implicit in the Haaretz article cited by Frank al Irlandi. Reading Khamenei’s full statement in context, however, it becomes obvious that he was just doing, for better or worse, what Iranians usually do when it comes to the Palestinian issue: saying much but doing very little, and taking verbal potshots at Arab leaders.
Meanwhile, according to the AP, the Saudi website Rasid, which posts news about Saudi Arabia’s Shiite community, is saying that Sheik Awadh al-Garni has issued a fatwa today urging Muslims to target “interests and anything that has a link to Israel,” and to consider them “a legitimate target for Muslims everywhere” . This is much more extreme than anything Khamenei has said, but is receiving much less attention.
P.S. to Salah– I shall express my opinions when and where I like. If you have a website or blog, you can block my posts, but it’s not your call on this one. If you don’t like what I say, ignore it.
I said the last two posts, referring to both Crimson Ghost and Titus. Neither “If ever a nation deserved to labelled a “terrorist state” it is israel.” nor “The people brought it on themselves, ain’t democracy great when it backfires on the terrorists?” are anything other than flames. Branding entire nations as terrorist states is the currency of the neoconservatives, and I won’t dismiss these hundreds of victims as “terrorists” either.
Alex, I did not say I was Jewish.
I hope Shirin can spread everything that Madji is reporting about the dire conditions in Gaza, as well as the low kill rate the rockets from Gaza have actually had.
Inkan, there is a difference between a state and a nation. The state refers to the government and its institutions. The nation refers, roughly speaking, to the citizenry of the state. Israel is indeed a terrorist state as it uses terror to achieve its goals. That is hardly a flame, it is, at the very least, a point of view that is well supported by facts. It is something on which reasonable people might disagree, but it is not a flame.
Thanks for the encouragement to share Majdi’s reports. I have posted his first report on one American blog, and may put it on Dail Kos, although things disappear from those so quickly it is almost not worth it. Today Majdi told me that he thinks he underestimated the impact on ordinary people in Gaza. He also reported that his two year old daughter (I seem to have lost a year somewhere – I thought she was only one year old!) has added to her vebal skills. She now can say “Ana Khayfa, Baba” – “I am scared, Daddy”. Lovely thing for a child to have to learn at age 2, isn’t it?
Inkan, there is a difference between a state and a nation. The state refers to the government and its institutions. The nation refers, roughly speaking, to the citizenry of the state. Israel is indeed a terrorist state as it uses terror to achieve its goals. That is hardly a flame, it is, at the very least, a point of view that is well supported by facts. It is something on which reasonable people might disagree, but it is not a flame.
Thanks for the encouragement to share Majdi’s reports. I have posted his first report on one American blog, and may put it on Dail Kos, although things disappear from those so quickly it is almost not worth it. Today Majdi told me that he thinks he underestimated the impact on ordinary people in Gaza. He also reported that his two year old daughter (I seem to have lost a year somewhere – I thought she was only one year old!) has added to her vebal skills. She now can say “Ana Khayfa, Baba” – “I am scared, Daddy”. Lovely thing for a child to have to learn at age 2, isn’t it?
Salah– I shall express my opinions when and where I like. If you have a website or blog, you can block my posts, but it’s not your call on this one. If you don’t like what I say, ignore it.
I Did same if you don’t like it ignore it. this discussion space you like it or not but been sensible and truthful is the main prosperity here.
Scott and Isadora
and in so doing, lances an excuse that some may be hatching to change the subject to attacking Iran.
As we suspected, here comes the start of the shift of target.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700976.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Mr. Salah,
Reading your quotations I do not find any greater merit in these Biblical references than I do in my pastor’s Biblical references. The whole problem seems to me rooted in the tendency of people to read the mythical religious past into the present.
I presume you are Sunni or Shia, and feel certitude in narrow sectarian reflections on the world around us. But all of your quotations of religious viewpoints, whether they are Hebraic or Arabic, are meaningless to me.
Somewhere in the late 20th century societies and people lost touch with the promises of progress, and reverted to the chambers of darkness and despair and superstition and ignorance that characterized the era of religious consciousness.
Do you not see that the Zionist claim to a national religious right in Palestine is a destructive illusion, just as the Muslim claim to certainty in the Quran? All is human folly under the sun lest one exercise reason with great humility.
It is true that Americans are fed up with the propaganda of these Zionist wars in the Middle East, just as they are aware of attempts by managers of the Zionist media to appeal to quasi-religious sentiments among the populace, but the propaganda and media spin are a curse upon us all.
So I see no point in your quoting religious verse.