(updates in extension)
Amid revelations (pun intended) that Pastor John Hagee deems the Holocaust to have been divine retribution against the Jews, presidential candidate John McCain belatedly sees the light and has “rejected” John Hagee’s endorsement.
Hagee’s organization, Christians United for Israel, (CUFI) trumpets itself as a Christian version of the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee. CUFI’s just released program for its July 21st Washington-Israel Summit reads like an altar call to an “Amen Chorus” to sing John McCain’s favorite Beach Boys tune — “Bomb bomb bomb; Bomb, bomb Iran.”
Ironically, many of the leading CUFI speakers happen to be prominent Jewish neoconservatives, set to rally Hagee’s Christian soldiers to go marching as to yet another war. Will they still appear?
Previously quite useful to the neoconservatives, Hagee from his CUFI pulpit has been shouting for the US to launch a pre-emptive attack on Iran, even with nuclear weapons, as part of what Hagee deems “a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation […] and [the] Second Coming of Christ.” (not to mention the suffering of a lot of “left-behind” Jews at the hand of the “anti-Christ.”)
The first two CUFI DC conventions attracted tens of thousands. As I’ve been reminded, CUFI does not necessarily march in lock step with Israel, though when they disagree, it’s usually in the direction of shrill warnings to Israel to not give up occupied/disputed territories. Advance registration for this year’s CUFI event in Washington is down sharply from last year at this time, in part over Hagee’s perceived anti-Catholic remarks
Credit Bruce Wilson for documenting what John Hagee has been saying and writing about the Jews and the Holocaust. Here’s the YouTube audio recording of an especially chilling Hagee sermon, apparently from the late 1990’s. Hagee’s “scriptural text” is Jeremiah 16, verse 15: (emphasis added in passage below)
“Behold I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers” – that would be Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – “Behold I will send for many fishers and after will I send for many hunters. And they the hunters shall hunt them” – that will be the Jews – “from every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.” If that doesn’t describe what Hitler did in the Holocaust… you can’t see that. So think about this – I will send fishers and I will send hunters. A fisher is someone who entices you with a bait. How many of you know who Theodore Hertzel was? How many of you don’t have a clue who he was? WOO… Sweet God! Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew that at the turn of the 19th century said – “this land is our land, God wants us to live there”. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said, “I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel”. So few went, Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the Holocaust. Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says – Jeremiah righty? – “they shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and out of the holes of the rocks”, meaning: there’s no place to hide. And that will be offensive to some people. Well, dear heart, be offended: I didn’t write it. Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said, “my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come BACK to the land of Israel”. Today Israel is back in the land and they are at Ezekiel 37 and 8. They are physically alive but they’re not spiritually alive.”
As one horrified Israel supporter friend commented to me this morning, Hagee appears to have suggested that “God sanctioned the killing of 6 million Jews in order to get his Jewish State.”
One wonders how Jewish leaders would react if Iran’s President Ahmadinejad would deem Hitler to have been God’s ruthless “hunter” and the holocaust to have been a just punishment by God.
It will be interested to see if distinguished figures like Senator Joseph Lieberman, Daniel Pipes, Frank Gaffney, and Robert Satloff will still appear on the CUFI platform with Hagee. While Lieberman last week was generally defending Hagee, it will be telling how he responds to this latest Hagee controversy.
We will watch and post anything about CUFI program “updates.”
Personal Note:
Helena and I (Scott) have commented upon John Hagee and “evangelical zionists” here before, including my own lament on Hagee as the “Godfather” of “the mother of all sermons.” As a Christian and as a long time Iran observer, the subject particularly pains me.
CUFI “nights to honor Israel,” held with much fanfare around the country, often feature participants whipped into a frenzy, dancing ecstatically with Israeli flags draped around their shoulders, all while praying for God to smite (e.g., “obliterate” in Hillary speak) Israel’s perceived enemies, beginning with Iran. Imagine how an Iranian Muslim, even the most pragmatic ones, might feel upon watching such “sights.”
I wonder about the witness of Christianity that such spectacles present to the world. Where in them are the “Peacemakers” from the Sermon on the Mount?”
And which religion, in practice, is supposed to be more prone to “jihadi” or “holy warrior” thinking?
What has happened to New Testament “grace” in the bloodlust of so much of Hagee-style Christian Zionism? As that same wise friend this morning remarked,
“in their fervor to defend Israel, and God, they forget God’s character — and that is that he does not wish that any should perish, that his mercy ever endures, that he does not cause bad things to happen. (To a Christian) Jesus came to grant us mercy. The old law is fulfilled in His mercy and grace. He does not use hurricanes to punish, nor does he use Hitler to create a nation….”
How refreshing.
Updates: (as noted in the discussion below)
Josh Bernstein reminds us that last year, Senator Lieberman characterized Hagee as a modern-day Moses:
“I want to take to opportunity to describe Pastor Hagee in the terms the Torah used to describe Moses…. He is an Ish Elohim. A man of God. And those words really do fit him. And I have something else… Like Moses, he’s become the leader of a mighty multitude. Even greater than the multitude that Moses led from Egypt to the Promised Land.”
So what does Lieberman think of Hitler as God’s “hunter?”
For his part, Reverend Hagee has not apologized for anything yet. Rather, in a statement to the Huffington Post, he faults his critics as “biased” and insists that he has “always condemned the horrors of the Holocaust in the strongest of terms.”
Curiously, there is no mention yet of the controversy on Hagee’s CUFI web site.
No offense to Christians, Jews, or anyone else, but saying that the Holocaust was divine retribution against Jews is no more irrational than saying that Jesus is the messiah and the son of a virgin. By accepting the validity of the leap of faith, one forfeits the basis to challenge others’ religious beliefs as ‘crazy’.
The antics of the Christian Zionists are nothing new. The reunion of the diaspora in the Promised Land is a necessary preliminary to the Second Coming. However, before that the diaspora must be complete, i.e. cover every country. Some three centuries ago, this was a serious argument for readmitting Jews into Britain, i.e. expulsion is a hindrance to the Second Coming. Unfortunately, those Jews Who after the Reunion still reject Jesus as the Messiah will be smitten also. (That´s the part they conveniently leave out (g))
The problem is that Hagee is not so far off reality. The close cooperation – aye, friendship – between Adolf Eichmann (then an upstart young intellectual in what amounted to a think tank called SS) and Feivel Polkes (then a commander in the Hagana) as well as the fact that the SS trained Jewish settlers in agriculture and combat, in full cooperation with Zionist organizations like the Hechaluz, are some of the dirty little secrets of a time we seem to be able to discuss only when covered in brimstone.
And, of course, in Israel itself the belief that without Hitler there would be no Israel is rather mainstream (though for slightly different reasons, i.e. the holocaust industry).
Hagee’s organization, Christians United for Israel, (CUFI) trumpets itself as a Christian version of the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee..
Helena, by restricting Hagee’s organization “CUFI” as the main body diluting powerfully the American Public toward Israel, its very shallow conclusions or reading of the American society.
If you really think what the tools and ways that diluting American minds its starting from early schools, Churches and committees to those sponsors for Solder of God, or those sponsoring holy land tour and support for Israel, not saying most the media outlet are in full support and endorsement of Israeli for decades and more and more ways and tools you or any Americans knew them.
Helena, isn’t most American candidates who run for presidency now or before are or were sponsored and helped by donations from Israeli lobby inside and outside America?
So it’s not strange or uncommon to see calls like Hagee’s organization, its quite common to see and read most of American are in full support for Israeli for deferent reasons from religious Pont view and other politic/friendship point view.
It very common in any discussion with Americans that first question asked about Israel and the right of her to exist you answer to this question will put or label you are with us “friends” or against us “terrorist”.
I’m not following your concern Salah. (and this is Scott) I didn’t mean to suggest CUFI was diluting anything, nor is it the only organization representing the voices of “Christian” supporters of Israel. However, it by far is presently the most prominent of such organizations — known loosely as “Christian zionists.” Though the organization is barely two years old, Hagee has built a network of thousands, of prominent, like-minded Christian leaders/pastors/laypersons.
That said, I’m now hearing from some Christian friends who deeply resent that Hagee is held up to speak for them. I understand that. I hope diverse Christian voices, including even from among those calling themselves supporters of Israel, will have the courage to go public and speak with a different voice.
I didn’t know if Hagee’s repulsive statements would get any press coverage. I’m glad that it has. The scariest part of his statements is that they’re a logical conclusion from Christian Zionist dogma. The ultimate goal is to bring on the Second Coming by bringing the Jews to Israel. In that mindset, anything that leads to that is God’s blessed work. Like the Holocaust.
How aware are Israelis of the Christian Zionist movement? The current Israeli leadership have an important political alliance with the movement. But this movement, through the ultimate goal of converting everyone to Christianity, has an ideology that is as much about annihilating the Jews as any Nazi or fundamentalist Islamic ideology. Word of the Christian Zionist movement must be spread throughout Israel, so Israelis will have the outrage to force their leaders to break away from the movement completely.
BTW: I’m disappointed to see nokangaroos try to sneak anti-Semitic propaganda into the thread’s context, trying to warp the Israeli Zionist into some Nazi government subdivision by overblowing the Polkes meeting and referring to the “holocaust industry”. I hope tangents like that don’t suffocate this thread.
Scott – Should this be “shoulders” instead of “soldiers”?
“with Israeli flags draped around their soldiers”
Scott – Should this be “shoulders” instead of “soldiers”?
“with Israeli flags draped around their soldiers”
Also, perhaps Salah means “deluding” rather than “diluting” (in saying “diluting American minds”).
Thank you Bob! Correction to that typo gaffe made – shoulders indeed. My apologies to readers. The subject is sensitive enough. And now that we put in “deluding” into Salah’s observation, his point is more clear. Double thanks.
Thanks Bob Gaines for your kind correction.
Scott, whoever call for support for Israelite now or before two years or decades, they are all in same veins but under different name and committees.
This is very understandable that some looking for self necessity to pop in the media or in the life to build their wealth or name in our very affective media world were people looking for ways tools to pickup attentions.
Those what you call them will have the courage to go public you know Israelite support done under secrecy and behind the curtains most the time, it’s not new at all but reviewing the events tells more.
Scott its matter of fact that Israelite without all the support by Americans (citizens and successive administrations) will not survives 60 years in ME
BTW, “I’m not following your concern Salah”
This not the first time Scott, you complain few times not following my points here, looks you “get old” to follow my concerns!
fyi, I forgot that at last year’s CUFI confab, Senator Lierberman went a bit off the deep end with this reference to Hagee, comparing him to Moses….:
“I want to take to opportunity to describe Pastor Hagee in the terms the Torah used to describe Moses,” Lieberman declared. “He is an Ish Elohim. A man of God. And those words really do fit him. And I have something else,” the senator continued. “Like Moses, he’s become the leader of a mighty multitude. Even greater than the multitude that Moses led from Egypt to the Promised Land.”
————-
(from: http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080523/cm_thenation/45322989)
There are both Orthodox (pro-Zionist) and ultra-Orthodox (anti-Zionist) rabbis who have said the Holocaust was punishment for disobedience. Not that a serious Christian has should anything but contempt for the heresies of Christian Zionism, the self-hatred of which might be evidenced in the report of mass New Testament book burnings by Orthodox Jews in Israel May 20th.
There are both Orthodox (pro-Zionist) and ultra-Orthodox (anti-Zionist) rabbis who have said the Holocaust was punishment for disobedience. Not that a serious Christian should have anything but contempt for the heresies of Christian Zionism, the self-hatred of which might be evidenced in the report of mass New Testament book burnings by Orthodox Jews in Israel May 20th.
Thanks for your input Ken. Can you post any news links for us to the NT book burnings in Israel that you mention?
As for “Christian zionism,” this is a tricky term. Since the 1970’s, it’s become associated with the dispensationalist, pre-trib wings of (Scofied) Christianity. Therein, I might agree that the faith went way off course. (even into the realm of heresies, though I cannot brand those who subscribe to the finer points as not serious in their faith….)
Michelle Goldberg may have been the first to catch the Hagee reference to Hitler as a “hunter” doing the Lord’s will in a Huffington Post dispatch last November. (where she finds the quotes in a recent book – which Lieberman’s and McCain’s staffs surely had)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelle-goldberg/we-might-be-chosen-but-w_b_34220.html
Yet I think her definition of C/Z, though quite common, is too narrow. Among the Christians I know who take a strong pro-Israel stance, many don’t subscribe to the dispensationalist “pre-trib” rapture assumptions. Some (like my friend I quote above) have a broader reading of those chapters in Isaiah (61-61), where God is deemed a lover of justice, who hates robbery and iniquity — and Israel a land where “the nations will see its righteousness.” (Imagine – Israel again being admired for its justice, not the power of its friends or the wrath of its presumed G*wd)
Alas, such views and hopes would seem all too rare among Christian supporters of Israel…. May their lot increase.
Hagee, true to form, attacks his accusers as “biased.” (Much like the Faux news report on the matter which focused on the “left leaning” blog that raised the issue)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/unapologetic-hagee-says-h_n_103081.html
In a statement to the Huffington Post (but not on the CUFI web site), Hagee writes:
“I have always condemned the horrors of the Holocaust in the strongest of terms. But even more importantly, my abhorrence of the Holocaust and anti-Semitism has never stopped with mere words.”
No doubt.
JStreet has been advocating very heavily against Hagee’s (Bushbollah) perverse view of the world-
Thanks Kevin — glad you mention JStreet. I had heard that (as an alternative to AIPAC)J-Street was thinking to create an alternative to CUFI…. Have I got some ideas for that…. (perhaps working with existing low key groups – eh Helena?)
It appears they had quite a petition going out, re. Hagee
http://www.jstreet.org/campaigns/mccain-finally-renounce-hagees-extremism
Inkan wrote”BTW: I’m disappointed to see nokangaroos try to sneak anti-Semitic propaganda into the thread’s context, trying to warp the Israeli Zionist into some Nazi government subdivision by overblowing the Polkes meeting and referring to the “holocaust industry”. I hope tangents like that don’t suffocate this thread…”
It really is inaccurate to call this ‘anti-semitic’. The links between some Zionists and Nazis is well established and worthy of proper discussio. (Alan Hart, as a matter of fact, raises the matter see Information Clearing House.)
Hart also makes the point that these Christian Zionists are actually promoting anti-Semitic policies. And this is obviously the case: to call for Jews to “return” to Israel is, in effect, to call for their expulsion. To argue that Jews must either convert to Christianity or die in Hell might also be interpreted as being anti-semitic.
The fact that these people are nuts may re-assure some but they have been exercising substantial power in the world during the past twenty years. And, as any Palestinian will tell you, their policies hurt.
Yes, I am very enthusiastic about J-Street. They really seem to be having an impact-which is excellent.
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT
CATHOLIC OR JEWISH?
All this shows is why the likes of Hagee, Parsley, Copeland etc. is a family business, and why we need to move on………….in spades
Jewish Voices calls on other major Jewish organizations to renounce Hagee and reject ties to Christian Zionists of his ilk:
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_1070.shtml
From the Jerusalem Post, more “interesting” quotes from the Israeli side — this time of former P.M. Netanyahu singing Hagee’s praises (as of last month)
Note too that Hagee’s book was published in Hebrew — surely with the “hunter/Hitler” references therein.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1207486208002&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
I have long viewed the right wing Zionist-Christian fundamentalist alliance as the modern equivalent of the Hitler-Stalin pact . Two profoundly evil forces that hate and distrust each other temporarily coming together for tactical reasons.
The world will be much better off when we have have a falling out among these murderous fanatics. May they both pay for their multitude of sins against everything decent in the world.
Madrassa – Israel’s Weapon of Muslim-Slavery
by Mesbah Uddin(Monday, December 22, 2003)
“If Truman had taken positions that would have resulted in a failure to establish the Jewish State, he would almost certainly have been defeated in the November elections, since the Zionists had almost the full support of the Congress, the United States media and most of the American people.”
Loy Henderson, Director of Near Eastern and African Affairs, U.S, government, 1948
The world marks 60 years of zionist terror made possible by a corrupt U.S. president
by Greg Felton(Wednesday, May 14, 2008)
Ooh, I probably shouldn’t step on this hornet’s nest…
But we can hardly be surprised that a political movement which by definition would be aided by ethnic cleansing in Europe would tend to work with those who desire ethnic cleansing. Why did Hitler trade extensively with the Jewish colonies in the 1930s? (Or why did the colonies do business with him?) There was a shared interest in the mass expulsion of Jews from Germany. The planned Jewish state would have had to expend precious resources to cajole voluntary immigration instead of raking in the refugees; you try doing the bookkeeping on a new country sometime. Hitler similarly took the path of least resistance in terrorizing Jews into flight rather than rounding them up and murdering them, until 1939.
I in no way believe that the Zionists anticipated what happened after 1939. No one, and I mean no one in 1939 thought that Hitler could overrun all of Europe faster than Jews could escape his oppression. Hitler himself made no plans for the eventuality. From what I know of the Wansee conference of 1942, he had not previously set his bureaucracy to work on that besides his einsatzgruppen in Poland.
So with all that I am certain the Zionists had no intention to cause the Holocaust. However, their willingness to encourage ethnic cleansing was a sign of a ruthlessness, even an intellectual cold-bloodedness that may have set the stage for post-1948 events: the Lavon affair, which besides an attempt to frame Egypt for an act of war that would have cost many innocent Egyptian lives, was certainly understood to make a pogrom of Egyptian Jews likely. I’ve heard likewise about the encouragement of young Iraqi Jews to commit acts that would trigger ethnic cleansing.
But worst of all, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander; if a movement has a casual attitude about ethnic cleansing of its own people, why should it hesitate to ethnically cleanse those who get in the way of its settlers?
Christian-Zionists push for the second coming of Christ, The Hojatiyeh-Shie-Moslems push for the reappearance of the Shie Messiah “Mahdi” at the same time.
Both are paranoid. Both hope for extreme chaos and killing of millions of people for the prophecies to become true.
This is like the middle ages. Churches are overtaking the States and we just try to think clinically about the debates on what exact words so and so said…
Let’s get real. Let’s get rid of lunatics no matter which Messiah they are waiting for. Let’s live in peace with the rest of the world who turly don’t give a damn about either “second comings.” Ahmadinejad and his gang + Joe Liberman, Hagee and their gangs should be put in jail forever.
Christian-Zionists push for the second coming of Christ, The Hojatiyeh-Shie-Moslems push for the reappearance of the Shie Messiah “Mahdi” at the same time.
Both are paranoid. Both hope for extreme chaos and killing of millions of people for the prophecies to become true.
This is like the middle ages. Churches are overtaking the States and we just try to think clinically about the debates on what exact words so and so said…
Let’s get real. Let’s get rid of lunatics no matter which Messiah they are waiting for. Let’s live in peace with the rest of the world who turly don’t give a damn about either “second comings.” Ahmadinejad and his gang + Joe Liberman, Hagee and their gangs should be put in jail forever.
Hagee and friends put out a delayed response on the CUFI web site. (the date is misleading on it – par for the course)
http://cufi.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=media_press_releases#may_23_2008
Hagee’s words (in the sermon and in the book) are so toxic that he ignores them and instead only vaguely and lamely says he’s no different that all those other thinkers who wonder why a loving God could allow the Holocaust to happen.
The Rabbi takes a utilitarian approach, also ignoring the actual quotes, and instead noting how very useful Hagee has been to Israel.
Classic change the subject tactic — to focus on the “new Hitler” now afoot – e.g. Iran.
So never mind that Hagee’s sermon and his recent book blame the Jews themselves for the Holocaust — for not heeding God’s call (e.g. to go to Palestine), that God sent a “hunter” to punish and push them to Zion.
The excuses are almost as bad as the original quotes….
I can’t wait to hear how Lieberman and Bibi whitewash the matter
Don’t blame Haggee and Co., the zios encourage this kind of thinking.
There is an outfit called the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem that is a clear zionist hasbara program to entice the Evangelical Christians over to the zio way of thinking. One of its stated objectives, and the one that most of its programs seem to be aimed at, is “To stimulate Christian leaders, churches and organizations to become effective influences in their countries on behalf of Israel and the Jewish people.” Replete with quotations from the Old Testament re “I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you.”
http://www.icej.org/
Agee’s Jewish admirers remind of Hitler’s Jewish admirers in Batar, Jabotinsky’s “revisionist” mob that sought conquest by means of a bloody “iron wall,” long before any Arab war befell the Zionists. Batar wore uniforms weaved, sewn, washed, pressed and distributed free by their Nazi tailors. Said Batar: so what if Hitler didn’t like Jews, he’s wonderful for the German people– then came Kristallnacht!
For three generations American Jews have wailed over the Holocaust. But it is not the wail for lost beloved brethren, but the wail of heavy guilt passed on through three generations for the deliberate silence of the 1930s, motivated by fear that their “good deal” in America might be endangered if they speak too loudly against German-US relations. After all, Germans were then the biggest immigrant group and the Bun was mighty tough, even in America.
East Euro Jews who survived TWO Holocausts (Hitler’s and Stalin’s) raised me through our westward refuge from Stalin’s grasp. And they taught me that people who think it’s cool to make a deal with them “dumb goyim” loonies end up at the front of the line of horror… as so many in Russia found out in the 1950 Soviet “Doctors’ Plot” of Stalin. In 1946 Zionist leaders pledged Stalin full support against the West if only he armed the Palmach against the Arabs. He armed them generously; and then he butchered Russian Jews in a spasm of anti-Semitism brought to an end only by his death in 1953. So as a Christian raised by Jews I offer you an historical lesson passed on to me by my wise mentors: Don’t play with the Devil, thinking that he is dumb; for you will surely be burned!
BTW, what of Hagee’s vile homophobia? New Orleans was hit with a hurricane cuz we like some Pride Parade? Give me a break!
KDJ
Thank you, Salah, for the citation from my column. You can find my discussion of Truman’s betrayal of the Arabs (and international law) at http://www.gregfelton.com/int_politics/2008_05_13.htm
Also, I show the historical symbiosis between Jewish and Christian zionism in Chapter 2 of my book “The Host and the Parasite——How Israel’s Fifth Column Consumed America”.
(The book is only available through my website while I look for an honest publisher)