I’m sitting here at 10:50 a.m. in Beirut watching Hizbullah’s t.v.
station, al-Manar, as it airs the big processions taking place in the
southern suburbs to mark Ashoura,
the anniversary of the killing of Hussein Ibn Ali in the Battle of
Kerbala (in present Iraq) in A.D. 680. The broad streets are
completely crammed with black-clad figures, men and women, some waving
high yellow, black, or red flags. Some wear the broad yellow
scarves of Hizbullah, some wear green scarves. Broad chants rise
from sections of the crowd, among them: “I follow you, Hussein!… I
follow you Hizbullah!” A few minutes ago, some organized cohorts
of men were rhythmically striking themselves.
10:55. Now the crowds seem to have come to a large open
space. The camera zooms in to a portion of it where there some
commotion and with a grainy long-distance lens we see Sayeed Hassan
Nasraullah in the middle of the crowd with his bodyguards trying to
clear a space in front of him… I imagine the Israelis are
watching this too. Suddenly the loudspeaker shouts “I foolow you
Nasrullah!” The crowd repeats it ecstatically. The speaker then
plays his voice, recorded, greeting people and shouting the slogan of
Ashoura: “Haihat min al-zilla” (translated by Amal Saad-Ghorayeb as
“Humiliation is unthinkable.”)
Death to America. Death to Israel.
The crowd, claimed to number a million, is being guided from nearby
streets into the square.
Last night I watched a Manar
broadcast of Nasrullah giving a fairly lengthy oration in a vast
enclosed space. It was a lengthy religious/political allegory
talking about why Hussein entered the battle of Kerbala even though he
knew death was a possibility. But his burning desire for justice
pushed him on. Nasrullah recounted the story in an expert mixture of
sonorous classical Arabic fus-ha and whenever he was representing what
people (including Hussein) actually said, he would render this in
Lebanese demotic and his whole body language would change to more that
of a traditional, fatherly storyteller. (You can actually see a good example of this rhetorical style of his– with English subtitles– on this months-old YouTube clip.)
The “lesson” he gave in last night’s speech was that Hussein was not seeking martyrdom and nor
was he seeking to
grab control of the regime; but he was simply taking determined action
based on his strong desire for justice, and the outcome was in God’s
hand. (A fairly Buddhistic lesson, if I might say; certainly one
with broad human relevance.) In talking with Amal S-G this
morning she said the main lesson there seemed to be against those who
urge pursuit of martyrdom operations for their own sake. Or, as
she said, an anti-salafi message.
In the crowd now, families, women in cohorts. Women with and
without headscarves, but most with. Men carrying small children.
Now the crowd has parted to provide an eight-foot clear walkway, with
stewards holding the crowd back on each side. Now coming down
this walkway a small group of people, including many men in green
scarves…
11:15. Well, I guess the Israelis may have been watching and even
targeting the cleared walkway but now, suddenly, there he is still in
the middle of the crowd, smiling and waving. Unclear from the
images exactly where in the crowd he is.
Loud shouted chants with call and response. Sung chants in which
from time to time the crowd joins. Mixing “I follow you,
Hussein!” with “I follow you, Nasrullah!”
Notes about this. An apparently
new level of personalization here: more Nasrullah than Hizbullah.
An assertiveness about being Shiite. Understandable, of course,
since this is a religious holiday for the Shiites. But the whole
holiday from its origins to this manifestation of it has an
unmistakeable anti-Sunni cast to it?
11:20 Oh, here from one side-street comes a procession pulling
along a disabled Israeli tank.
Big shouts for Hussein. Then Death to America; death to Israel.
Different crowds– some organized into cohorts, some just ambling
along– are still coming along different side-streets.
The camera shows us a large group of turbanned imams.
When I talked with Amal Saad-Ghorayeb
an hour ago, she noted that the Hizb has invested a lot in today’s
event/spectacle including from the media point of view. Ive just
been thinking about the camera work involved in all this. They
have large numbers of cameras mounted on, presumably, high buildings
around the area. Sometimes we have four different split-screen
views but there are certainly more cameras than that. Hizbullah
has always, as I’ve noted before, been good at circuses as well as
bread (and military shrewdness.)
11:30. Preparations still underway, including centrally the
getting-into-position of people who are still gathering from along the
side-streets. The voice on the speaker seems to be getting into a more
somber mood.
11:35. His arrival is announced. But we still don’t see
him. Someone else is doing a chanted song.
Death to America. Death to Israel.
Ah again and again what they got from this slogans?
People like these who just follow Mullah like sheep guide them to the dark ages will never and will not raising and to be good citizenry to build their state.
Lat us take Iraq, in the top of chaos status non of those Turban come out and stop these practices which is un Islamic and not in Quranic teaching at all but these Mullah they using them to get their power and money as some report said that Sistani made 3 billions of dollars in 2005 from these events and the city setting on carnage and the rubbish every where no services and no water or electricity.
Is the right act to directing and using this youth’s energy and people power to build their cities or cleaning their areas, building and repairing schools and care of the hospitals and other public services rather than cutting and hitting their heads with knives! Or hitting their backs with metal chains or hitting their chases by hand all sort of these disgusting acts far from soul of Islam I wonder how some call himself ayatollah and he have this religious leaning and he don’t know what Islam faith instructing Muslims ?
Look to this picture here and the full story here (Arabic Text), I lived for 40 years in Iraq in Hilla (Babylon) 90Km South Baghdad, vested Karbala and Najaf, saw Ashur in Hilla streets but it was never been women like those in this picture (there was some at early 60’s) but that wiped off Iraqi society from that time.
After 1968 all these ashura faded down slowly and then band by government.
There is funny story I heard, that 1967 during Arab/Israeli 6 days war Iraqi hospitals needs blood for injured solders, in that years Ashura was near so the government went to Mohsien Al-Hakim (Grant father of Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim) asking him to issue fatwa instead of those cutting their heads by swards and knives ask them to donate their blood instead to Iraqi hospital, guess what his answer was?
He refused that call?
In which religion the saving the life it’s not allowed?
Ashura in Iraq
Watch that Imam!!!, no showing of head cutting and bloody seen of Ashura
never heard of head cutting in Ashoura.
Simply, the Shiites have their own customs in the Islamic world, so what?
If they say”Death to America. Death to Israel” and are capable of stopping the enemy from achieving his goal, so what ? Even a Christian Lebanese can not accept but death to israel after the 2006 war.
Nasrullah was the only one to ask world leaders to stop the massacre in Gaza and allow for humanitarian aid to enter the city, during Ashoura.
Are you criticizing their religious believes? I do not understand if you are pathetic or you are a zealot?
Talking about cleaning their streets, where in southern Lebanon? who build it and rebuild!!! The israelis or the americans..
world peace,
First I think there is misunderstanding of my words about “Head cutting”!
What it means in the 10th day of Ashura some guys who participated in these events cuts few lines on top of their heads (3-5cm long) and you can see their blood over their faces, shoulders and their white dresses as reflecting of self punishment of the killing of Imam Hussein.
Secondly I don’t know if you are a Muslim or you are reader of Islamic Holly book and Sunnah and other Islamic references, these acts of Ashura are not ISLAMIC and not in QURANIC TEACHING. Thus they are not “religious believes” simply because are not religion practices or religion instructions
Coming here maybe you fancies yourself some sort of propagandist — if you think you are anything but an obsessive little troll. Go and do you homework about Ashura.
What I am against is these inhuman acts, where the fact is Imam Hussein teaching and massages were to raise Islamic values and Muslims to the level of humanity peacefully with dignity.
I wonder how any western looking to these doggy seen of bloody inhuman disgusting things done by small groups of some call themselves Muslims in ashura its defiantly will view all Muslims as gauzy fanatics bloody guys and Islamic religion more fanatics and bloody religion which is not the truth.
If they say”Death to America. Death to Israel” and are capable of stopping the enemy from achieving his goal,
Hezbollah / Iraq killing Iraqi specially in Basra were women killed because of their dress,
Ah…. those slogans “”Death to America. Death to Israel” for 25 years from Iran and in Lebanon as you said, are those Shiites in Iraq who are cooperating and supported by Iran and Hezbollah! what slogan they hold? can you tell it’s funny yah?
Did you know how many branches and offices, or their touring to those Americans land? Or their Sons and daughters are on the land of those enemies names in their slogans.
Go figure out please and come back tell us.
During the celebration people flagellated themselves, beating their backs and chests with chains. As the crowds moved through the streets of Karbala, their emotions spanned from grief to joy. Some zealous believers even cut their heads with the flat edge of swords to show their extreme sorrow over Imam Husayn’s death.
By Christy Ullrich, National Geographic
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/feature5/index.html
Pilgrims mark Ashura
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=74711
There are many different ways of marking Ashoura. In televised version of the big Hizbullah demonstration there was no sign of any actual head-cutting, though some participants were rhythmically beating their chests with their fists at times. In Kerbala and also I think in south Lebanon, there does tend to be some actual self-cutting on the head with knives or swords, which I find very disturbing.
Many other religious traditions engage in physical self-flagellation and self-mutilation as part of religious practice, including to my knowledge some Catholics, some Buddhists, and some Sufis. Others require circumcision, whether male or female– and this is typically inflicted not on one’s own body but on that of a younger other who is in their care. (Therefore, perhaps even more morally troubling?) Some people may find any of these practices distasteful, but people who do not practice them should at least try to find out, calmly, what is going on when they are practised, before opening a discussion as to their necessity.
but people who do not practice them should at least try to find out, calmly, what is going on when they are practiced, before opening a discussion as to their necessity.
Helena your comment smears self necessity?
If very small group trying to deform and to disturbed religion then the follower of that religion should voice up and clear any inhuman and anti religion believes acts that some groups trying to enforcing that religion.
So in regards of Islam our discussion Shiites are 10% of total number of Muslim in the world and small group from this 10% practice and trying to enforce some foreign other religious traditions to infiltrating to Islam religious and Quranic teaching.
in this case most Muslims specks out about wrong doing for some not Muslims mistakenly (Helena included here) its “religious traditions” its not religion tradition yes its customs and traditions brought from some other societies/religions to Islam so there is not right coming here and telling “before opening a discussion as to their necessity.” there is defiantly not self necessity Helena, go figure out while you in ME trip ask as much as you like what they thing.
I raised the issue which is very disturbing and in fact Helena you should forward your accusations toward those Imams and Mullah who using these acts as ” as to their necessity.” its very clear to mainstreams Muslims and not hard to hid this fact and its turthing facts, but if some one don’t know in deep Islam faith trying falsely lecturing about Islam religion traditions, I thinks its a matter for any Muslim have the right to correct them.
As Al-Qeda teaching today, now most westerner hold disturbing believes about Islam while this ideology trying destroying this faith from inside.
Helnna and other who stating these acts as “religious traditions ” read thses statements from these very high Shiites rank clerics who tells these are not Islamic Acts and Traditions.
This is statement by the Hezbollah’s godfather Mohammed Hussein Fadulallah.
For some need to learn more “from many of the comments here.”
http://arabic.bayynat.org.lb/ibadat/7.htm
–
أية الله العظمى السيد محسن الحكيم (( إن هذه الممارسات ( التطبير) ليست فقط مجرد ممارسات… هي ليست من الدين وليست من الأمور المستحبة بل هذه الممارسات أيضا مضرة بالمسلمين وفي فهم الإسلام الأصيل وفي فهم أهل البيت عليهم السلام ولم أرى أي من العلماء عندما راجعت النصوص والفتاوى يقول بان هذا العمل مستحب يمكن إن تقترب به إلى الله سبحانه وتعالى ان قضية التطبير هي غصة في حلقومنا))
2 –
أية الله العظمى السيد أبو القاسم الخوئي:في رد على سؤاله حول إدماء الرأس وما شاكل يقول (( لم يرد نص بشرعيته فلا طريق إلى الحكم باستحبابه)) المسائل الشرعية ج2 ص 337ط دار الزهراء بيروت
3 –
أية الله العظمى السيد محمد باقر الصدر في جوابه لسؤال الدكتور التيجاني حين زاره في النجف الاشرف (( ان ما تراه من ضرب الأجسام وإسالة الدماء هو من فعل عوام الناس وجهالهم ولا يفعل ذلك أي واحد من العلماء بل هم دائبون على منعه وتحريمه)) كل الحلول عند آل الرسول ص 150 الطبعة الأولى 1997 م للتيجاني
4 –
أية الله العظمى السيد أبو الحسن الأصفهاني (( ان استعمال السيوف والسلاسل والطبول والأبواق وما يجري اليوم من أمثالها في مواكب العزاء بيوم عاشوراء باسم الحزن على الحسين (عليه السلام) اما هو محرم وغير شرعي )) كتاب هكذا عرفتهم الجزء الأول لجعفر الخليلي
5 –
أية الله الشيخ ناصر مكارم الشيرازي (( على المؤمنين الأخوة والأخوات السعي إلى إقامة مراسم العزاء بإخلاص واجتناب الأمور المخالفة للشريعة الإسلامية وأوامر الأئمة (عليهم السلام) ويتركوا جميع الأعمال التي تكون وسيلة بيد الأعداء ضد الإسلام، إذ عليهم اجتناب التطبير وشد القفل وأمثال ذلك…))
6 –
أيه الله العظمى السيد كاظم الحائري (( ان تضمين الشعائر الحسينية لبعض الخرافات من أمثال التطبير يوجب وصم الإسلام والتشيع بالذات بوصمة الخرافات خاصة في هذه الأيام التي أصبح إعلام الكفر العالمي مسخرا لذلك ولهذا فممارسة أمثال هذه الخرافات باسم شعائر الحسين (عليه السلام) من أعظم المحرمات))
7 –
أيه الله العظمى السيد محمد حسين فضل الله ((… كضرب الرأس بالسيف أو جرح الجسد أو حرقه حزنا على الإمام الحسين (عليه السلام) فانه يحرم إيقاع النفس في أمثال ذلك الضرر حتى لو صار مألوفا أو مغلقا ببعض التقاليد الدينية التي لم يأمر بها الشرع ولم يرغب بها.)) إحكام الشريعة ص 247
8 —
أية الله الشيخ محمد مهدي الاصفهي (( لقد دخلت في الشعائر الحسينية بعض الأعمال والطقوس فكان له دور سلبي في عطاء الثورة الحسينية وأصبحت مبعثا للاستخفاف بهذه الشعائر مثل ضرب القامات.)) عن كيهان العربي 3 محرم 1410 هـ
9 –
أيه الله العظمى السيد محسن الأمين ((…. كما ان ما يفعله جملة من الناس من جرح أنفسهم بالسيوف أو اللطم المؤدي إلى إيذاء البدن إنما هو من تسويلات الشيطان وتزيينه سوء الأعمال.)) كتاب المجالس السنية الطبعة الثالثة ص 7
10 –
أيه الله محمد جواد مغنية ((…. ما يفعله بعض عوام الشيعة في لبنان والعراق وإيران كلبس الأكفان وضرب الرؤوس والجباه بالسيوف في العاشر من المحرم ان هذه العادات المشينة بدعة في الدين والمذهب وقد أحدثها لأنفسهم أهل الجهالة دون ان يأذن بها إمام أو عالم كبير كما هو الشأن في كل دين ومذهب حيث توجد فيه عادات لا تقرها العقيدة التي ينتسبون إليها ويسكت عنها من يسكت خوف الاهانة والضرر.)) كتاب تجارب محمد جواد مغنية.
11 –
أية الله الدكتور مرتضى المطهري(( ان التطبير والطبل عادات ومراسيم جاءتنا من ارثودوكس القفقاز وسرت في مجتمعنا كالنار في الهشيم.)) كتاب الجذب والدفع في شخصية الإمام علي (عليه السلام)
وهناك أسماء كثيرة ضد ظاهرة التطبير ومنهم
أيه الله العظمى الشيخ الاراكي
أيه الله السيد محمود الهاشمي
أية الله محمد باقر الناصري
والعديد من كبار العلماء
BTW Helenna may your visit incident with ashura traditions in ME gives a good opportunity to write an article or a new book with those horrible pic’s of head cuttings.
Salah:
Your figure that Shia’s make up 10 percent has recently been open to discussion. Professor Vali Nasr contends that Shia’s could possibly make up 50 percent of all muslims in the Middle East.
Ayatollahs and other members of the clergy have sometimes made attempts to do away with the blood and beatings that sometimes accompany the Ashura festivities, but to no avail. The spectacle continues.
“Go figure out please and come back tell us.”
you keep telling me to go, I understand your frustration, we all are frustrated.
Shiites are Muslims, whether they have different customs or not, good or bad customs, the Quran is a sacred book to humanity, it is not a book that talks to Muslims only. It adrresses believers and non believers, Jews, Christians Muslims,atheists and Sabeans and many others. It is not to you or me to decide who is right and who is wrong, otherwise, we do not need God. Try not to strain yourself.
I did not get your point about Iraqis killing Iraqis, do not fall into the trap of sectarianism, it is self destructing and will only add fuel to the blunder.
Karen Armstrong, a Christian nun is an examplary
figure of how humans must embrace the religion of the “other”.
Mark Pyruz
Your figure that Shiite’s make up 10 percent
When I said 10% depending on some figures crossing me, netherless I did not said this is accurate figures by any means.
In regards of Vali Nasr, Ah….. I doubt his motive and his numbers, as Helenna stated “as to their necessity.” he is very close to neocon’s and their enterprises, but also do not forgot that reporting on this issue is very disturbing and manipulating as from Iraq when most if not all the media and propaganda machines and sadly even this space telling us Iraq that Iraqi Shiites are 54% where in fact if you count the Kurds on their religion believes not on the ethnicity we will end in fact that Sunni more that 50%, these sort of misleading numbers that media and some playing specially about Iraq it was a big play ground for all “to their necessity.”
world peace,
Shiites are Muslims, whether they have different customs or not, good or bad customs, the Quran is a sacred book to humanity, it is not a book that talks to Muslims only.
Give a break who the hick you come with all this pathetic claims? Is this new Islam or new religion we don’t know that invented by you dude?
Muslims who follow Quran and Sunnah do understand if you have anything in your mind try to educate yourself about Islam and don’t through word here without any knowledge,
Next time don’t put your words in my mouth I did not said that they are not Muslim they are, but the issue of these horrible acts are far from Islam teaching and Quranic teaching if you see ” Quran is a sacred book” (I don’t from where you got this) then the fact these “sacred” actes are more scary for the rest of us, isn’t?
Can you tell from where in their world are you?
And what you put in the end of your pathetic comment, Muslims and Islam have no problem with other religion either Christianity or Judaism and as for other its approved as Iraqi society we are well living peacefully with different ethnicities and religions (holly ones) and other like Yazzidy (Do you know who they are and their believes).
I doubt you read my Arabic part (did you know Arabic?) which is came from very high rank Shiites clerics all of them telling you and others these practice are un Islamic acts.
Go read them well and next time don’t put words without known thing like propagandist — if you think you are anything but an obsessive little troll again.
Salah, according to an AP newswire:
“Police in the central Iranian city of Isfahan detained a large number of mourners for mutilating themselves during ceremonies commemorating the death of a revered Shiite figure, the official IRNA news agency reported Sunday. “These people were disturbing the public order,” said police spokesman Col. Alinaqi Alavi in Isfahan. “They were using daggers as well as slashing their shoulders with spiked chains.”
Mark Pyruz,
I know, there was in the news (Arabic) some where one of Iran religious officials (I think Khaminie, if I am not wrong) reported he ban these sort of acts.
I surprise here some even Helenna included who defending these acts on baseless claims as “religious traditions”!! I am not against Ashura itself sermons of Imam Hussein to memories this even and learned lessons from Imam and using this sermonizes to encourage people to work in our days for the best the Muslims society to help each other support effort to raise the a awareness of bad things and stick to the good acts usefully to advance our societies from educations, health and so on and so forth, but using these poor guys to do horrible acts and disgusting although it is against Islamic teaching and saying this is Islamic religion I can congested and I feel these terrorists guys and sick.
So if all Shiites clergy include Iran today ban them with not all Shiites guys believe and supporting them in fact most of Shiites disgusted from them, so what’s and why for some trying to bring acts and enforce action which is causing harm to the publics and may we see in years to come the affects of more deadly suicide guys are brainwashed to do doggy things and then ending with ideology as Al-Qaeda as it started as “Mujahiden for Islam” we ended a chain of terrorists who are brain washed and ready to kill in cooled blood.
Should we as all Muslims voiced loud against any bad acts in our societies as we seen the westerns world enforcing democracy and freedom to Islamic world, or after Al-Qaeda terrorists run whiled most the western word asked Muslims why you don’t condemning these their acts and them.
Or we wait by saying it “religious Traditions” until giving birth of ugly thing to come?