Nasrullah taunts Israel over body parts

29 thoughts on “Nasrullah taunts Israel over body parts”

1. “I think the new big thing was his claim that as a result of the 33-day war of summer 2006 Hizbullah holds the body parts of numerous fallen Israeli soldier:
   “(HaAretz agrees with this news judgment.)
   “Nasrullah told the mammoth crowd:
   “we have heads of Israeli soldiers, we have hands, and feet; we have nearly whole bodies as well. So what did the army say to the families of those soldiers? They are so weak that they left the parts of numerous bodies– not just one or two or three– on the battlefield.”
   Helena, aren’t you a Quaker and a pacifist? How is it you can put up this lengthy post without once expressing any abhorrence whatsoever at what Nasrallah was saying?
   If anything, you almost seemed to be relishing it? Why? Are Israelis not human in your mind or what?

2. Have they also retained the body parts of the 58 French and 242 American peacekeepers who were suicide bombed by Hezbollah near Beirut Airport in their sleep in 1983? Will Nasrallah offer up their body parts as well?

3. Bb, Of course any traffic in body parts is disgusting, and of course Israelis are human.
   What happened to the 1,000-plus Lebanese civilians and 40-50 Israeli civilians killed during the war was, in my view, far more disgusting because they were not military people. A person entering the military agrees to lay his/her life and body on the line (and also thereby gains certain rights under international law.) These were all soldiers in an army waging an aggressive war of invasion and attack against a neighboring country.
   Philosophically, my view is that once a person is dead he or she is dead, and God rest his/her soul. I don’t place any particular value on mortal remains, though I realize that some people do.
   I am sorry for any distress caused to the families of the departed Israelis by Nasrallah’s statement. But let’s not go overboard in our outrage about the statements. I personally care much more deeply about the living than about the mortal remains of the dead. I care about those unjustifiably deprived of their freedom, those tortured, those who live in destitution and fear. If and when these conditions apply to any individuals, it concerns me greatly.
   The launching, escalation, and maintenance of a state of war, I should note, impose all these kinds of harms on people. The big challenge is to end all strands iof the longlasting conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors in a sustainable and equitable way.

4. Another double standard in Islam, they rave about respect for the Muslim dead.
   Both should practice what they preach.
   That applies to the Israelis; as they have been known to be callous with the return of Muslims, although I can not reference an Israeli head of state celebrating holding the dead for ransom. Any examples out there?

5. “Why? Are Israelis not human in your mind or what?”
   They are,but no one will doubt that they have lost their humanity. These body parts are picked up by Lebanese and on Lebanese soil. A sovereign nation, Lebanon.
   When a bunch of Israeli armies entered their soil, they were ambushed and some got killed. They did not like it, so they decided to wage a war for 33 days. Their aim was to get to the Litani river, they could not, during the war the U.N. headquarters were bombed, 3 peace keepers were killed mistakenly, another massacre was committed
   in Quana, Lebanese children, men and women died as precious as any non combatant live,be them American or Jews, thousands of homes flattened and more than 1000 non combatant life were killed, and still to this day civilians are getting killed by the tens of thousands of cluster bombs that the south was littered by.
   Did you or any of your elected leaders, apologized
   for the charitable acts you leave behind every time you venture into your neighbours homes, villages or cities ?
   This is the first time the civilians of your country get a taste of rockets exploding in their neighborhoods, unlike the Syrians, Jordanians,Lebanese and Egyptians during the Israelis wars .Let alone the super sonic aircrafts that became almost like an anthem between 1982 and till this day.
   No one can remain a pacifist in the face of hegemony.There is a price for every thing in life.
   Seems like hizbullah have learned this lesson from his neighbors. And he is applying it, hope the rest will learn to take more than they give

6. Helena I understand your value-judgement distinction between civilians and military and I share it to a large extent. However, my point is I don’t see it as a pacifist, Quaker position, at least not in my experience of those I’ve known over the years.
   “I don’t place any particular value on mortal remains, though I realize some people do”.
   ???? You wouldn’t place value on the mortal remains of your own nearest and dearest?
   Are you saying that if it had been the Israelis taunting Hizbollah over body parts in the way Nasrallah did that you would not have expressed your revulsion in the strongest terms?
   Just as a sidelight on this issue: during the 33D war one of the cable networks had a story about a cemetary up on the Israeli side of the Lebanese border. They filmed it – the graves were well kept and protected from possible descration.
   The graves contain the bodies of mainly Lebanese fighters from the various wars over the years.
   It is my recollection that the reporter said that the body of Nasrallah’s son had been buried there before it had been exhumed and returned to him in a body exchange six years later. The footage of Nasrallah grieving over the body of his son is very moving.
   In light of this, how Nasrallah can be excused for this latest exercise in callous rhetoric on any grounds let alone from a pacifist perspective?

7. The initial raid by Hezbollah was what’s been charged by the Israelis as the catalyst for the 2nd Lebanon War. The intent of the Hezbollah raid was to capture IDF personnel, in an effort to exchange them for the release of Lebanese resistance fighters captured by the IDF. Hezbollah has made a pledge to the families of these prisoners that efforts will continue to be made to gain their release. Nasrallah’s comments may be part of a continuation of that effort. That is to say, on the one hand the comments are intended to make Hezbollah look strong, but on the other they constitute a renewed offer of indirect negotiation. By doing so in public, Nasrallah’s intent may be to reach out to the families of the fallen Israelis, so that they might put pressure on their government for such negotiations to take place in earnest.

8. As I read this, indeed with Western eyes, I wonder why these bodies are such important symbols for Nasrallah? Any idea?

9. “I can not reference an Israeli head of state celebrating holding the dead for ransom.”
   The Israelis hold the living, including living children for ransom – only they call them “bargaining chips”, so I guess that makes it OK.

10. Another double standard in Islam, they rave about respect for the Muslim dead.
    John R, There is no double standard in Islam neither in Christianity nor in Judaism.
    Please let’s not judge religions on acts of some people who say they are from this or that religion.
    Religions all clearly very sensitive and caring of the life of humans alive also when they are dead.
    Helena, questions for you:
    In your view what contributions or what’s befits with Nasrullah’s statement about holding body parts of dead Israelis?
    What’s this can fruits for Lebanon as a state?
    Is he trying to make things worse? What his motive in your view by stating this in a very critical time of Lebanon politics.
    Please can you enrich our discussion here briefly as you are very close of Hezbollah ideology and thinking?

11. “world peace” does not speak for me; I will doubt that those soldiers had lost their humanity. I also see irony in someone so eager to embrace bloodlust (“No one can remain a pacifist in the face of hegemony.”) chose to name oneself “world peace”.
    I don’t think anyone here who’s shown concern over the exploitation of the body parts have implied anything that diminishes the value of lost non-Israeli lives.

12. Neither “World Peace” nor anyone else here, except me, speaks for me. But still, it is good to have this space here where we may all reason and discuss together and seek to persuade each other. But no-one is compelled to agree! This way, perhaps we can all learn together. I know I learn from many of the comments here.

13. BB, your description of the “well-kept” graves “protected from desecration” is very interesting. One IS prompted to ask who exactly it is that keeps and protects those graves, and to suggest that it might just be Palestinians who happen to be citizens of Israel who are doing all that – just a thought, you know.
    And your emphasis on the well-kept and protected nature of those graves brings to mind the Israeli government’s policy and practice of sending their military to destroy non-Jewish graveyards, simply ploughing up hundreds of thousands of graves, knocking over and breaking gravestones, exposing the bones of the dead buried there, and leaving them as is, sticking out of the ground. They have also by policy destroyed numerous historic Muslim shrines, some a thousand or more years old.
    And of course, contrast that to the eternal whining that goes on even until today over the alleged desecration of a few Jewish graves by the Jordanians after they succeeded in taking East Jerusalem.
    Double standards, anyone?

14. I’ve been watching for the full translation of the speech. While waiting, here’s OSC report on Israeli Military reactions:
    Israeli Army Statement Comments on ‘Cowardly’ Nasrallah’s ‘Cynical’ Speech
    Press release: “Comment on Nasrallah’s Speech”
    Israel — OSC Summary
    Sunday, January 20, 2008 T06:35:07Z
    Document Type: OSC Summary
    Israeli media on the evening of 19 January and morning of 20 January extensively report on the 19 January speech of Shaykh Nasrallah, the leader of Hizballah, in which he said his organization had IDF soldiers’ body parts, as well as on the IDF spokesman’s reaction to the speech. Israeli Media Note ‘Unusual’ IDF Spokesman’s Statement
    Some media outlets refer to the IDF reaction to Nasrallah’s speech as “unusual.” Ynetnews in English, centrist news site operated by Yedi’ot Media Group, carries a report by Hanan Greenberg at 2005 GMT, saying: “Hassan Nasrallah’s words regarding body parts of IDF soldiers allegedly held by Hizbullah are ‘cynical and vicious,’ the army said Saturday night in an unusual statement.” Karmela Menashe, the army affairs correspondent of state-funded, independent Voice of Israel Network B in Hebrew, also refers to the IDF statement as “unusual” in a 0505 GMT report on 20 January. IDF: Nasrallah ‘Cowardly,’ Move ‘Cruel,’ ‘Cynical’
    A statement issued by Israel Defense Forces WWW-Text in English, official website of the IDF spokesman’s office, at 1841 GMT on 19 January, says: “The pronouncements by the head of the Hezbollah terrorist organization, Hassan Nassrallah, constitute a cruel and cynical move by an organization that fragrantly tramples the most fundamental, ethical codes, shows no respect for human rights or the international conventions that govern these matters.
    “Even more so, his speech demonstrates that the Hezbollah terrorist organization violates the values that are sacred to all religions, including Islam. We call upon all those with the most basic common sense to view him as cowardly and to condemn him.” ‘Highly Placed Sources:’ Israel Won’t Negotiate Over Body Parts Return Baraq Ravid and Amos Har’el report in Tel Aviv Ha’aretz (Internet version-WWW) in English, left-of-center, independent daily of record, at 0302 GMT on 20 January: “Senior military officials Saturday confirmed that Hezbollah was in possession of the remains of Israel Defense Forces soldiers who died in the Second Lebanon War. They said the security establishment had updated the families of soldiers who could possibly be affected.
    “Highly-placed sources in Jerusalem expressed shock at Hezbollah Secretary-General Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah’s claims about the body parts in his organization’s possession. They said Israel would not negotiate with Hezbollah over the return of these body parts and was focusing on obtaining the release of kidnapped soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev. ‘There is no intention of cooperating with Nasrallah. We will not be a party to profiteering in the body parts of Israeli soldiers and will not trade in body parts,’ they said.
    “Sources in Jerusalem, meanwhile, confirmed that the person mediating between Israel and Hezbollah is continuing his efforts to bring about another prisoner exchange agreement, one that would include Regev and Goldwasser.
    “Israeli officials have long been aware that Hezbollah possesses the remains of Israeli soldiers. No complete bodies are involved; the bodies of all soldiers who were killed in the war were retrieved and buried in Israel and every family who asked received a full report about the state of the body at the time of burial.”
    “Military officials said they believe the remains of about 10 soldiers are involved.”

15. H, readers:
    What Nasrallah’s speech has (surely he knows this)has incited a tirade of calls for his assassination-http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=88214
    Of interest is the assuredness which some Israeli leaders claim that this can easily be done-when I was in Lebanon they had tried already to do this-well before the war…a Mossad ring had been openly busted in the country-
    What’s interesting about most people’s percpetion of Nasrallah, of course to those of us Westerners, he is enigmatic, morally revolting,etc…however, he is Lebanese-Hassan Nasrallah is from Harat Hreik-not an Iranian import. I met someone in Lebanon in 2001 or 2002 who claimed to be a MERIP reporter who was writing a biography of Nasrallah. I do not know what ever came of that.
    H, who are the Lebanese Option Group? It appears that there are perhaps4Shia parties in Lebanon? The Lebanese Option Group, Kfar Movement, AMAL and Hezbollah.
    LOG has slammed Hezbollah today:
    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=88211
    Here is another interesting piece, entitled
    The Reinvention of Lebanese Shiite History
    ” http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=88206

16. Apparently your well-informed friend didn’t catch all your glaring mistakes (which betray an obvious agenda and bias).
    First of all, the pro-Syrian rally was on March 8 2005, not April 2005. It was dwarfed by the anti-Syria March 14 2005 rally, which was estimated at 1.2 million or so.
    Then you write: “And the pro-Siniora forces have never held anything like a mass public rally at which their popular support could be demonstrated.”
    Rubbish. One needs only basic knowledge (as in reading the papers) to know that this is completely false. The “pro-Siniora forces” as you ludicrously call them, have had numerous massive rallies, including the two memorials of the Hariri assassination on February 14 2006 and 2007, as well as other large local rallies in northern Lebanon and the Chouf.
    Apparently you’re not just biased, you’re completely ignorant of the news in Lebanon, making you doubly unreliable.

17. You can watch one such “pro-Siniora forces” rally here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar2Q7lunkzE
    This massive crowd rallied despite a terrorist attack a day before on two public buses aimed in part at dissuading people from attending.

18. Just a note that the John R recently posting is not me (have posted here intermittently for a few years.)

19. Anon,
    How cowardly to use insults-Anon, apparently, your anger and hatred is deep-I cannot understand, as a person who really does like all people-why the use of such pathetic adjectives is so prominent…so cowardly…and immature. Discuss. If one feels that the facts are not straight, well say so. But why use degrading terms…this is so very Daniel Pipes…he wants the right to speak, and then denies that of others through mcarthyistic approaches…so pitiful. Again, I think of the student who wrote on Ratemy Prof.com that I am a cock…how kind. How astute. Birds of a feather.

20. Aside from your heart-warming outrage, where exactly did I use oh-so cowardly “insult” so full of “hatred” and “mccarthyism”!?
    Thou protesteth too much…

21. Anon, I did not accuse you of McCarthyism, so let us not conflate. Go back and read your post-I am not outraged, nor surprised. Saddened.

22. And you clearly didn’t respond to my question. Where are those hateful insults?

23. I, too, don’t see where Anon used “cowardly insults” (isn’t that, in and of itself, a “cowardly insult”). I think he claimed the writer was “biased” (I agree) and ignorant of the news (which certainly could be indicated by the facts).
    I’ve seen a lot of what I’d call “insulting McCarthyism” (i.e. demagoguery and self-righteous pontification) and bias here, but certainly not in that post by Anon.

24. (i.e. demagoguery and self-righteous pontification)
    Very much so JES thats reflecting you?

25. Bait and hook-use insulting adjectives, and then claim, oh what do you mean?

26. I followed the speech of Nasr-Allah and I think that people here are taking his words about the heads and arms out of context. He explicitly said that what he is saying has nothing to do with the slowing or stopping of the negotiatians about the two Israeli soldiers in exchange for the Lebanese prisonors In Israel. Most people now realize how patient and how shrewd Nasr-Allah is . He perfectly knows that Israel has no other choice except to negotiate the release of the 2 soldiers in exchange of the Lebanese prisoners and he said several times that if the whole world tried to release the 2 soldiers, there is only one way and that is indirect negotiations . He will not oppose a deal now but certainly he is not in a hurry. In this regard he is in a more powerful position and Israel has no other choices.
    Regarding the context in which he mentioned the heads and arms. He was speaking about the Israeli army (IDF). He said that the Israeli Army was portraying itself and was consequently visioned by the israeli people as having 2 unmatched qualities : when it goes in it finishes the job successfully and accomplish its mission as planned and second : when it leaves it does not leave any remains of its dead soldiers behind. He went on to say that this is part of the doctrine of the Israeli Army and that they used to be proud of their skills. Here comes the mention of the body parts. He said that this army went in and failed to achieve its goals and went out and did not take the remains of its fallen soldiers with it. Those remains were kept and preserved by the fighters of Hizb-Allah. The army that Israel is proud of has become in bad shape . He did not show pictures or use any deragatory adjectives to describe the parts . He was simply saying that the army failed to do its job and presumably lied to the Israeli people and as such is an army without honour in front of its own people. He mentioned that the Hizb has body parts in a previous televised interview around a month earlier and it did not attract such comments. Nasr-Allah is actually practicing a powerful and effective psychological warfare and he knows that repeating this information -which is not new – at this time and with him marching with his people on the streets of Beirut is a big blow to Israeli self- image and to the Israeli government.We should not forget that the Israeli report about the war on Lebanon is soon to be published and Nasr-Allah is humiliating the Israeli Army. We should not forget that he warned them also in this speech that he will respond in an unexpected way if the Israelis tried to attack Lebanon again. He also warned them that he will respond if the Israelis continued their practice of kidnapping shepherds , fishermen and farmers to release them a few hours later. He said that he is serious about responding and that they should not take his words lightly. That was the context and theme in his speech.
    Israelis forget that they portray bodies of dead Palestinians on TV and searching these bodies in front of the cameras with robots because they consider them terrorists trying to kill Israelis. I do not know what Israelis want the Lebanese people to think of those Israeli soldiers attacking their lands and killing their children and women; to call them friends and liberators!! If the Israelis are kind enough why they are keeping bodies of dead Lebanese and trading them after many years with Israeli soldiers or bodies.
    Regards
    m.hasan

27. The “anon” person above (strange handle to use, since at one level everyone here apart from me is just as anonymous as he or she chooses to be) is right that I’d misremembered the date of the big pro-Syrian rally in early 2005. My memory had mis-pegged it as having coming after the M-14 rally, though it was actually “M-8”, as subsequent references to that political bloc have become named.
    I’ve been traveling a lot, as people might know, and did not at that point have my usual access to archives and reference materials. Part of the cost of doing on-the-ground reporting. Sorry about that mistake.
    Regarding the holding of any commensurable demonstrations that could be described in any way as pro-Siniora or pro-M14, I truly have no record of any having occurred since July 2006. This is not a trivial matter. Siniora/M14 supporters like to describe their side as the “majority.” They command, however, the majority only of the present gerrymandered parliament, elected in 2005, and not– according to all available evidence– of the Lebanese citizenry as a whole. The pro-Aounists, for example, are estimated to constitute much > 50% of the Christian population; Amin Gemayel lost the by-election in the Upper Metn; etc. If the pro-M14 people really were the majority, wouldn’t we have seen them flaunting their numbers on the streets by now?
    Most people in Lebanon seem very alienated from, and sullenly hostile to, the whole of the old-style political class made up of the trailing twigs from the zuama’ families and the country’s vast and very self-satisfied banking and real-estate interests.

28. H, if you are interested in commenting, what do you make of this latest assassination in Lebanon? Surely Lebanese-Syrian relations were on your mind during your excursion? Any thoughts from the people in Lebanon pre-Eid’s assassination regarding Syria’s role in all of this?

29. Nicholas Blanchford on the assassination of Cpt. Eid-Lebanon experts offer useful commentary on the possible scenarios for this terrible assassination-
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080125/wl_time/wasalqaedabehindbeirutbombing

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