Kucinich leads again (in U.S. Congress)

19 thoughts on “Kucinich leads again (in U.S. Congress)”

1. I agree let’s have peace, obviously. I still find the terms being bandied about inequitable. The international peace force would be established in Lebanon.
   To assess the fairness of the idea, ask yourself if the idea would ever take off if it involved Israel giving up some control of its sovereign territory. Of course, if someone proposed an international peace force that would occupy both Lebanon and Israel in order to keep the warring parties apart, Israel would never agree to it, and the media in the US would find such an idea laughable. But because the idea is perceived as protecting Israel, the US media never examines it critically.
   I mean what if someone were to propose an international peace keeing force in the area between Gaza and Israel, i.e. a “buffer zone” that would cover both parts of Gaza and Israel. Or apply thte idea to the West Bank: a peace force that would remove all Israeli forces/settlements and that would keep Israel and the Palestinians seperated. The idea will never even be mentioned in the “liberal media” because it’s outside the realm of accepted ideas. The US media never speaks in terms of restraining Israel because in American political discourse Israel is always the victim.
   It’s sim ilar to the media’s constant discussion about UN res. 1559 calling for Hizbollah to be disarmed. I’ve never heard so much discussion about a particular UN res. except maybe in the lead up to the Iraq War. Why don’t we ever hear discussion about UN res. 242 by the US media?

2. The international peace force would be established in Lebanon.
   John, you obviously apply the cure where the cancer is. Was this any different in Afghanistan or Bosnia? Interestingly the Afghanis at least participated in getting rid of the Taliban through actual fighting. The Lebanese get well plan doesn’t show them lifting a finger. Just begging and demanding.

3. Hi Helena,
   I apologize for having been absent so long, I’ve been travelling and decompressing since returning from my last trip to the Middle East 3 weeks ago.
   Unfortunately I have bad news. One of our new correspondents in Iraq appears to have been kidnapped on Sunday, July 23.
   If you have any contacts or suggestions for how to proceed, or might be willing to take a moment to post a short blog entry, it would be much obliged.
   As soon as I can reveal more information I will. Until then look here:
   http://www.aliveinbaghdad.org/node/232

4. Sam,
   I don’t see anyone in the Middle East as a “disease” to whom a “cure” must be applied.
   Israel has driven almost a million people from their homes in Lebanon and the deaths are at a 10:1 ratio: ten Lebanese dead to 1 Israeli dead. The over 400 dead Lebanese are overwhelmingly innocent civilians. Almost a third of them are children.
   The notion that Israel is in the process of “self-defense” when two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped is truly laughable.
   To use your language, in human costs, the “cure” is clearly worse than the “disease.”
   And as for the taliban, they are making a comeback >Afghanistan and Iraq are falling apart. I’m not sure anything has been “cured” in the region. But the seeds for future hatred and war have been sown quite efficiently.

5. Sam,
   I don’t see anyone in the Middle East as a “disease” to whom a “cure” must be applied.
   Israel has driven almost a million people from their homes in Lebanon and the deaths are at a 10:1 ratio: ten Lebanese dead to 1 Israeli dead. The over 400 dead Lebanese are overwhelmingly innocent civilians. Almost a third of them are children.
   The notion that Israel is in the process of “self-defense” when two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped is truly laughable.
   To use your language, in human costs, the “cure” is clearly worse than the “disease.”
   And as for the taliban, they are making a comeback >Afghanistan and Iraq are falling apart. I’m not sure anything has been “cured” in the region. But the seeds for future hatred and war have been sown quite efficiently.

6. “Zeinab Shahen, from Los Angeles, was also staying in Yaroun for the summer with her husband and four children. She arrived at the Rest House with the others, but says she had a close call when the Israelis fired a rocket near one of the vehicles they were riding in.
   “Where the rocket hit it didn’t damage the car much, luckily,” says Zeinab. “They’re using bombs, phosphorous or something. It burns. It melts. They’re burning people inside their houses. They’re burning cars, they’re melting cars. No one can leave. We barely made it.”
   http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs7873

7. NON-RECOGNITION WATCH
   Number of days that Israel declared its independence and the overwhelming majority of Arab and Muslim nations have refused to recognize that nation’s right to exist in peace.
   21,257

8. Israel needed a more convincing pretext for her planned invasion. In 1939, the german excuse for invading Poland, the “Gleiwitz incident” was managed more convincingly.
   Then, as now whether people claimed to believe it or not largely depended on which side they were on.
   Obviously, Israel hasn’t yet committed the Axis’s systematic genocide of perceived racial enemies, which was an atrocity. However her use of force against civilian populations of sovereign countries has no such moral superiority over the actions that began WW2. If this does become WW3, who are the bad guys, and which side are we on?

9. who are the bad guys? anyone who tries to kill a fellow human who is unarmed…. like civilians and UN peacekeepers
   who side will “we” be on? for the USA, that means Israel, no matter what…. but the answer depends on who the “we” is….

10. DISARMAMENT WATCH
    693: # of days since the UN demanded ” the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias”
    6122: # of days since the Taif agreement demanded “Disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias” and “weapons of the militias…delivered to the State of Lebanon”

11. Susan, we both know in reality everyone acts bad in war. War is large scale, and barely discrimate murder, inevitably including the inocent and unarmed. Usually there are strong motives for murder, such as greed,hatred or self preservation. Starting the mass murder of warfare, by invasion or other unilateral large scale military action reigns supreme among uniquely bad human acts. So we always just say it was the other guy. Then we can be “good” guys fighting “bad” guys while we murder away.
    Efforts to seperate the end and the means of what we do are purely intellectual exercises. Of course “we” prefer not to look at it that way. We create so many distinctions, we constantly try to divide and conquer in philosophy and politics, and in every world we inhabit real or ephemeral.
    Vadim, I’ve read many posts under your signature here and this new support for the authority of the UN is surprising, is it to be of a broad and enduring nature? The UN has so many proclamations, rulings and treaties, many unobserved, many being broken. I guess Kofi isn’t such a good friend of Israel’s all of a sudden but perhaps your support will turn him back around so he can arrange more targets. Surely he knows his place now.
    The 2003 film “Dogville” had a sad character who talked about “illustration.” The film pointed out some of its limitations, (also how few and how vulnerable to judgement by the rest of the world “we” are). But there is no harm in making one obvious one, adding to a blogosphere replete in them.
    If I legally own a gun, and shoot someone with it, that’s a crime, even if he illegally owns one. Unless he “started it” of course. But the sheriff won’t be impressed you killed four of his deputies in his office even if it’s with sanctioned weapons. And then blow up the ambulances carrying the wounded using their illuminated red rooftop crosses as targets.
    A democratic majority of Americans and Israelis contently accept that the world is either for or against us, that the forces against us are terrorists and are at war with us. Over the last couple of day’s I’ve seen countless blog comments apparently from Americans and Israelis saying “the world is against us”. I take it Dogville has voted. So be it, or “Amen” if you prefer. I’m sure this terrorist world will show no frailty to “our” assaults. And it’s probably the best shot we have against climate change.

12. and this new support for the authority of the UN is surprising
    It shouldn’t be surprising, and it isn’t new. What I object to is the selective application of UNSC decisions & international law including the Geneva and Hague rules of war & the Taif agreement. I’ve seen more disparagement of the UN here from “left”-leaning commentators than the “Israel uber alles” contingent.
    eg: the UN is now completely discredited — “Christiane” 2 threads below. One of many remarks along these lines I’ve encountered here.
    So Roland, do you think UNSCR 1559 and the Taif agreement should be enforced, and Hezbollah’s militia disarmed? Or do you (like our host) find their military adventures “daring and inventive”?

13. Seems like Christiane isn’ the only one skeptical of UN initiatives. In this post Helena herself termed UNSCR 1559 “counter-productive, hostile, and unrealistic” and noted with relief that the text of 1559 did not place any timetable on its insistence …that all militias in Lebanon (read Hizbullah) must disarm. So I guess we’re unlikely to see any ‘Hezbollah disarmament’ counters after all.

14. Christiane and Helena will have their own reactions to your interpretations of their statements Vadim. But I yeild to you, you put it far more elegantly and succinctly, the “illustration” of moral issues in these settings is pointless.
    The only tool the world has to intervene in the Israeli-Lebanese and regional slaughter is today’s League of Nations, the “UN”. The combative parties themselves backed by their allies, will continue with their mutually murderous and criminal agendas unless they are all stopped by an external party.
    Disproportionality in the protagonists observed repugnant acts is what has the still free world upset. But so what? It’s not so uncomfortable if you pick a side to support, and it makes for good TV and lively blogs. The PR guys can’t make the fight seem equal, so they just emphasise the differences in approach and blame it all on the other guy’s one. That is not to discount the efforts of media members determined to spend their lives carefully mapping the minutiae of these tragedies, if the power existed in willing hands to stop these crimes, it would matter to be informed about all relevant details. Nor to discount those that do good in helping the victims, whever they lay. Better to do some good than to do bad, or do nothing useful. Those people are better than us, Vadim.
    So, 68 relevant UN resolutions are in breach by Israel and Lebanese fighters, 2 of which you appear quite interested in. Which resolutions mattered when and as they all obviously weren’t observed then what now? How should the UN intervene? The UN is presently no match for the collective parties to the conflict. So it’s a moot point. Counting the angels on the head of a pin.
    Bloggers “debating with” or talking “at” each other, or “at” the parties involved, serve only to expend whatever conscience we have in easy vanity. “Lets have a chat about these serial killers, why should they stop?” Annoy any serial killer long enough with our gabble and we just become their next victim. Lars Von Trier’s “Dogville” shows how things will go for any community whose culture is to always seek and yeild to power. If one cares to follow it. The film, given its premise doesn’t try to convince or out-argue. I pray that Lars and fans like me are wrong, I certainly could be; if not, Amen. If I am, someone stop the chat and show me. Pictures of kids with their entrails hanging out are beginning to lose their charm. The slaughter is the heart of of the problem, and cannot be the solution. Attacking hospitals and media on the ground, and evacuating witnesses doesnt seem to hide enough of this butchery for my tastes.

15. So, 68 relevant UN resolutions are in breach by Israel and Lebanese fighters, 2 of which you appear quite interested in.
    The Taif agreement isn’t a UN resolution, so I’m really only interested in one, the only one relevant to the current Israeli-Lebanese military conflict (1559, which Hezbollah continues to violate.) As far as prior UN resolutions, Israel was in compliance with 425 & 426 when the recent conflict began, having withdrawn from Lebanon in 2000. I’m unaware of 66 other UN resolutions addressing Lebanon unanswered by Israel.
    Your link doesn’t illustrate moral issues, it obscures them. It’s war porn and propaganda. Who needs visual reminders that war kills innocents? Or is it meant to illustrate Zionist perfidy and indifference to human life? Salah has that base covered already.

16. I think readers can google all the UN Resolutions breached by Israel. Lets just say they all have a middle eastern flavour. They can also check the date 425 was passed. March 19, 1978. And Israel finally complied in 2000 when it was forced out by unpopular losses? Out in compliance for 6 years and now its back in breach again, after an invasion carefully planned a year ago? Will Israel comply again in 2028? How long to regroup then? Let them try and rebuild first I suppose.
    Can the UN control Israel, no. Only when America wants it to appear to. The UN will be the political toilet paper Israel uses when it has finshed doing its business on the people of the Lebanon this time around.
    The Taif agreement. Yes I added this to the resolutions which is incorrect. I apologise for that error. So perhaps enforcement of this agreement could stop the killing, lets see(Wikipedia):
    “During the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict the Lebanese Cabinet agreed in an extraordinary session to adhere to the Taif Accord when dealing with international negotiators. However, Energy Minister Mohammad Fneish, a member of Hezbollah argued that the ongoing military crisis had surpassed the Taif Accord and UN Security Council Resolution 1559, so the accord is no longer a document of national agreement. Iran’s significant role in the region should not be ignored, he added.[3]”
    It’s not really a solution is it, not during this next military crisis. Unlike say EVERYONE adhering to the rules of war and responding proportionally and directly against the enemy. Unlike EVERYONE not using high explosives to blow up towns with kids trapped in them.
    The front page of “From Israel to Lebanon” has changed with the new massacre today. I see the site is down now, suprising.
    Readers coming to this topic late can still consider the moral relevance of the images originally linked to here at The Guardian. “Perfidy” doesnt cover it. Children ceremonialising the murder of other people; including children, being encouraged by adults. I dont even know what to call that. And coining the original site made by angry and grieving lebanese “war porn” is grossly pejorative. Try saying that about Auschwitz photos.

17. “I think readers can google all the UN Resolutions breached by Israel. Lets just say they all have a middle eastern flavour.”
    No kidding, Israel’s in the middle east. We were talking about Lebanon? Lebanon isn’t in Palestine.
    Readers coming to this topic late can still consider the moral relevance of the images originally linked
    On an earlier thread I linked to a page devoted to shots of Palestinian children dressed as suicide bombers, holding Ak-47s, burning flags at HAMAS rallies, etc. The point being, lurid images like that, absent all context, prove nothing. Like pictures of dancing palestinians on 9/11 and pictures of Israeli terror bombing victims (or for that matter pictures of corpses at Waco exploited by US terrorists) they’re simply propaganda.

18. Try saying that about Auschwitz photos.
    Of course I’m not using Auschwitz photos to make some point about European anti-semitism. I’m not using them for anything, because no sane or intelligent person needs reminders that the death of innocents is horrible and disgusting, and because constructive political dialogue doesn’t appeal to raw emotion. I’m sorry you’re unable to understand this point. I only hope that Helena takes notice that her site is being used to syndicate war porn and takes such links down.

19. Gosh, you heard it form Vadim, photos of Auschwitz are banned. Porn is porn right, or is that term used situationally and litigiously like a lot of neozionist moralising? Not that he showed even in a series of replies retention of the entire post he was suposedly replying to, such as the fact that the link originally was to a different days photos. which I had found a new link to clarify. I dont expect anyone to look at what the IDF did again to Qana for very long, but like Auschwitz people need to know it happened and some records are photographic and not in the possesion of the IDF.
    originally linked to here at The Guardian.
    1. Resolution 106: “… ‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid”
    2. Resolution 111: “…’condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people”
    3. Resolution 127: “…’recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem”
    4. Resolution 162: “…’urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions”
    5. Resolution 171: “…determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria”
    6. Resolution 228: “…’censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control”
    7. Resolution 237: “…’urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees”
    8. Resolution 248: “… ‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan”
    9. Resolution 250: “… ‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem”
    10. Resolution 251: “… ‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250”
    11. Resolution 252: “…’declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital”
    12. Resolution 256: “… ‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation””
    13. Resolution 259: “…’deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation”
    14. Resolution 262: “…’condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport”
    15. Resolution 265: “… ‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan”
    16. Resolution 267: “…’censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem”
    17. Resolution 270: “…’condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon”
    18. Resolution 271: “…’condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem”
    19. Resolution 279: “…’demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon”
    20. Resolution 280: “….’condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon”
    21. Resolution 285: “…’demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon”
    22. Resolution 298: “…’deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem”
    23. Resolution 313: “…’demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon”
    24. Resolution 316: “…’condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon”
    25. Resolution 317: “…’deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon”
    26. Resolution 332: “…’condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon”
    27. Resolution 337: “…’condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty”
    28. Resolution 347: “…’condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon”
    29. Resolution 425: “…’calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon”
    30. Resolution 427: “…’calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’
    31. Resolution 444: “…’deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces”
    32. Resolution 446: “…’determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention”
    33. Resolution 450: “…’calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon”
    34. Resolution 452: “…’calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories”
    35. Resolution 465: “…’deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program”
    36. Resolution 467: “…’strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon”
    37. Resolution 468: “…’calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return”
    38. Resolution 469: “…’strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians” 39. Resolution 471: “… ‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention”
    39. Resolution 476: “… ‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void'”
    40. Resolution 478: “…’censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law'”
    41. Resolution 484: “…’declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors”
    42. Resolution 487: “…’strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility”
    43. Resolution 497: “…’decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith”
    44. Resolution 498: “…’calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon”
    45. Resolution 501: “…’calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops”
    46. Resolution 509: “…’demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon”
    47. Resolution 515: “…’demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in”
    48. Resolution 517: “…’censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon”
    49. Resolution 518: “…’demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon”
    50. Resolution 520: “…’condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut”
    51. Resolution 573: “…’condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
    52. Resolution 587: “…’takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw”
    53. Resolution 592: “…’strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops” 55. Resolution 605: “…’strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
    54. Resolution 607: “…’calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
    55. Resolution 608: “…’deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians”
    56. Resolution 636: “…’deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
    57. Resolution 641: “…’deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians
    58. Resolution 672: “…’condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
    59. Resolution 673: “…’deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
    60. Resolution 681: “…’deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
    61. Resolution 694: “…’deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
    62. Resolution 726: “…’strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians
    63. Resolution 799: “…’strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
    64. Resolution 904: “..Strongly condemns the massacre in Hebron and its aftermath which took the lives of more than 50 Palestinian civilians and injured several hundred others”
    65. Resolution1073: “.. Deeply concerned about the tragic events in Jerusalem and the areas of Nablus, Ramallah, Bethlehem and the Gaza Strip, resulting in a high number of deaths and injuries among the Palestinian civilians.
    66. Resolution 1322: “..Condemns acts of violence, especially the excessive use of force against Palestinians, resulting in injury and loss of human life”
    67. Resolution 1397: “..Demands immediate cessation of all acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and destruction. ”
    68. Resolution 1402: “.. calls for the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian cities, including Ramallah.”
    69. Resolution 1403: “..Demands the implementation of its resolution 1402 (2002) without delay .”
    70. Resolution 1405: “..Deeply concerned about the dire humanitarian situation of the Palestinian civilian population in the Jenin refugee camp.”
    You will note a lot of the resolutions pertain to Lebanon, but oh er of course not this “specific” invasion and these “specific” murders and other war crimes. But it’s true Lebanon isnt Palestine, though once again that wasn’t, (and I realise this is moot), what I actually said. The resolutions do have a middle eastern flavor but apparently more detail had to be posted here to clarlify.
    

Comments are closed.