I can’t finish this string of posts without urging you to go read Laila el-Haddad’s extremely moving description of how life feels in Gaza under Israeli bombardment. And then, from today, she had this description of the famioly of the 9-year-old girl killed yesterday, Hadil Ghabin, dealing with their shock (and with the grievous wounding of several other kids from the family, including 10-year-old Ahmed Ghabin who was blinded in the attack.)
Just so we can see some figures on what’s been happening, AP reporter Amy Teibel wrote today from Jerusalem:
- Since the beginning of the month, Israel has retaliated against an estimated 32 rockets that landed in its territory with 16 airstrikes and about 2,200 artillery rounds, the military said. Since Friday, 17 Palestinians, including 13 militants, have died in the offensive. There have been no Israeli casualties from the rocket fire.
Which side’s action came “as a retaliation for” the other’s is of course, as always, a heavily politicized judgment. But the importabnt thing is for both sides to end the violence, rather than for either of them to engage in any escalation of it.
So which side do we think has been acting in a more esclataory way? The one that in this period launched sixteen airstrikes and 2,200 artillery rounds and killed 17 people– or the one that launched an estimated 32 [very primitive] rockets and inflicted zero casualties?
Teibel actually tells us that,
- The military intensified its offensive against Palestinian rocket fire after the Islamic militant group Hamas took charge of the Palestinian Authority two weeks ago.
In a major policy shift, it has begun allowing guns to fire close enough to hit populated areas. That change claimed the life of Hadil Ghaben, 8, on Monday, after two shells blew huge holes in a concrete block house in Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip. The girl’s mother and seven siblings were hurt in the attack.
The Palestinian observer delegation at the UN has meanwhile asked the UN Security Council “to take urgent action to stop what it called an escalating military campaign by Israeli forces.” He delivered a letter to this effect to the Council’s current president, Chinese Ambassador Wang Guangya.
Helena,
You have written an amazing article. First, you assert, as a seemingly neutral observer:
But then use the heavily politicized judgment which seemed to concern you. Evidently, not for long, as you write:
In other words, your initial assertion was a cover story for your attack on Israel. In any event, the answer to who started things is that you cannot tell from the above noted information.
You then quote AP reporter Amy Teibel writing:
But that statement is not self-explanatory, as it is followed in Ms. Teibel’s article by this statement:
Is that an unreasonable policy? Or is you view that the Israelis must turn the other cheek because the Palestinian Arabs use more primitive weaponry?
Somehow, I do not see the neutrality in your position. I see an advocate who only sees the Palestinian Arab side of things.
“So which side do we think has been acting in a more esclataory way? The one that in this period launched sixteen airstrikes and 2,200 artillery rounds and killed 17 people– or the one that launched an estimated 32 [very primitive] rockets and inflicted zero casualties?”
I would say that Israel escalated in degree, simply because it has more firepower. The Palestinians escalated in kind, because their actions came after Israel had ceded all of Gaza to the Palestinians by evacuating all settlements.
Maybe Laila can try to explain to Yousef how the glorious intifada “liberated” Gaza.
Gaza is a giant prison. True, the guards no longer enter the cells to beat the prisoners, however, the imprisoned won’t forget who imprisoned them.
The problem with your logic, Neal and Joshua, is that you assume the Palestinians are the natural subjects of Israel. You begin your moral calculus with scales tipped in Israel’s favor.
Israel is shelling Gaza in response to rocket attacks. Palestinian fighters are rocketing Israel because they live in a giant prison. Israel created a giant prison because it gave up on its original settlement plan to absorb all the occupied lands.
Stop pretending Israel is just minding its own business and a bunch of crazy Arabs keep attacking it. Israel has for a long time conducted a systematic oppression of millions of people. Israel has killed plenty of women and children too. What Israel has done is morally REPUGNANT and I’m sick to have helped pay for it.
30+ years of Militant Judaism has made quite a big mess in the occupied lands.
America should boycott Israel just as we did Hamas. Let the Judeo-Fascist fight it out with the Islamo-Fascists.
observer,
The reason that Gaza is a “giant prison” is that the Palestinian Arabs use the territory as a base to attack Israelis and have leaders who are avowed Jew haters, espousing eliminationist, genocidal rhetoric. So long as that is the case, the territory will remain a “giant prison” – and deservedly so.
Hence, your logic is a vicious circle, lacking imagination.
Helena, you and many others argue (correctly) that the Qassams are “extremely primitive” and rarely kill people, but this isn’t the full extent of the harm they cause. What the Qassams do is force Israelis living in border areas to live under bombardment for months on end. You and Leila have provided very graphic testimony about what living under bombardment means for the Palestinians in northern Gaza, even those who aren’t killed or injured. The Qassams mean the same thing for Israelis, albeit to a lesser degree; for instance, children in Sderot have been diagnosed with many of the same psychological symptoms as those in Gaza. (I once had a half-serious idea for mental health professionals on both sides of the border to form a joint front against the artillery strikes and the rockets but I don’t think it will happen.)
In other words, while the Qassams are ineffective in a conventional military sense (although they sometimes do kill people, like the two Bedouin herders killed just prior to the election), that isn’t why they are used. The rockets are a psychological weapon against the Israelis in the western Negev and Ashkelon, and in that respect they are very effective indeed. And this is precisely what’s also wrong with the Israeli artillery strikes – the IDF shells also rarely kill, but they have proven ineffective at suppressing Qassam fire and their main value is as a psychological weapon against the people of northern Gaza. The people who live there, like those in Sderot, are being held hostage to a situation over which they can’t exercise any meaningful control.
It isn’t acceptable for any side to engage in such tactics. IDF artillery strikes near built-up areas are wrong, and Israel is responsible for the death of Hadil Ghabin. At the same time, the Qassams are neither a trivial problem nor something Israel can reasonably be required to tolerate.
It may sound like an abstract question, but I have to ask: “Is there a war going on there?”.
If there is a war, then escalation is the normal military response. Given the rejectionist and non-negotiating philosophy of Hamas, and the presence of Qassam rockets, I’d say there is a small war there. Israel has the options of ignoring the Qassams, retaliating in kind, or retaliating in a very big way. According to an article I saw somewhere, the Israeli government apparently believe they can suppress the rocket fire in a few weeks by retaliating at the current level. Why do they believe this? It seems unlikely to me.
I find the Palestinian political situation baffling. Hamas doesn’t want to wage war right now, but will permit Islamic Jihad to do so, even though this can lead to escalating retaliation from the Israelis. The Israelis appear to believe that they can persuade the Palestinian populace to suppress the rocket launchers by shelling either the general population and/or the rocket launchers. The Israelis aren’t dumb, but how will the general population stop rocketeers? Perhaps the PA will be pressured by the Palestinian masses?
Jonathan, I completely agree (as I wrote) that all these firings should stop. I can also appreciate that for an israel, hearing the “whoosh-pop” or whatever it is of a Qassam would be scary. I have certainly lived under shelling in Lebanon, Iraq (back in the day) and in Gaza more recently to know personally how scary that is.
But we are only talking about 32 (or, according to Kif in today’s NYT, 27) Qassam launchings in the past 11 days. (Also, Kif said only 15 of the Qassams landed in Israel. This means that 12 landed inside Gaza… indicating both the extreme iaccuracy of their launchers and the fact that they pose a present danger to the Palestinians almost as much as the Israelis.)
So when Dore Gold talked to me about the Israelis of the south living under “the terror” of the rockets, I have to say there is an element either of exaggeration or of extreme paranoia involved.
If the arrival of 15 Qassams is terrifying how about the arrival of 2,200 much more lethal israeli artillery shells and 16 massive air strikes?
But there are other elements of less than full honesty in the Israelo-centric account of this, too. If the Israelis sincerely want the Qassams to stop, there is only one force even remotely capable of doing that, and that’s an empowered set of PA security forces. But if Israel is also meanwhile shelling PA police stations and pursuing strong stragulation attempts against the PA– then how will that happen?
I do however believe there’s a good chance that it will happen. The present situation is something of an interregnum in Israel. Hopefully with the arrival of a new government there will actually be a policy from it. Right now, reports indicate the military is being given a free hand. (Luckily, they are no longer the wild-eyed advocates of force they were in 2002-3. But still, having a policy rather than a set of ROEs would be better.)
Helena,
You write: “If the Israelis sincerely want the Qassams to stop, there is only one force even remotely capable of doing that, and that’s an empowered set of PA security forces.”
If the HAMAS covenant means anything at all, empowering the PA security forces, now under HAMAS rule, means empowering people with genocidal dreams. That is an immoral position which, if you have an ounce of moral fiber in you, you ought to find repulsive.
Further, your notion that there have been only 32 rockets launched misses the point entirely. If the Palestinian Arabs want to settle the dispute – rather than have it decided by force of arms which, as you note, they are outarmed -, then they need a new philosophy. That means they need a philosophy that is about nation building, not terrorizing the Israelis in order, as HAMAS desires, to destroy Israel and drive off – or kill – at least its Jewish population.
Somehow, someday, you need actually to come to terms with what HAMAS is about, rather than ignoring its retrograde hate agenda and rather than apologizing for its ideology of hate.
Consider, Helena – as I really think you have apologized HAMAS into something it is not – that the ruling philosophy in the Palestinian Arab ruled areas is openly genocidal, misogynist, anti-homosexual, Jihadist and otherwise 7th – not 21st – Century. How, Helena, do you expect anyone to talk with, much less reach a settlement, where the opposing party’s starting point is the 7th Century? Why do you still give a free pass to people who, by any standards, are far, far to the right of any Israeli party? Why so one-sided in a dispute in which there are obvious rights and wrongs on both sides?
Now, you employ the ceremonial, peace on earth statement, that “Jonathan, I completely agree (as I wrote) that all these firings should stop.” But, you are entirely unwilling to address those with genocidal rhetoric. So, your statement is ritual, not real, as you are all but silent about HAMAS. And, you decend to telling Jews how they might celebrate their holidays – but say nothing about how Muslims should celebrate their holidays. And note: during Muslim holidays, Jews and Christians tend to be killed by those who espouse the HAMAS, Ikwani line. So, just perhaps, a few words about people with genocide in their heart might be in order from you – if you were really a friend of the Palestinian Arabs.
Frankly, unless people like you, who claim to carry the banner of freedom, are willng to stand up to the likes of HAMAS, then that rancid group can only think – as your rhetoric suggests (whatever you may really believe) – that the Left supports HAMAS’ agenda. Stop making excuses for HAMAS, if you really care about the Palestinian Arabs!!!
Neal, the more you attempt to hog the discourse here the wilder your accusations become: during Muslim holidays, Jews and Christians tend to be killed by those who espouse the HAMAS, Ikwani line.
What an amazing and quite unsubstantiable accusation.
Anyway, Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz was yesterday clearly indicating that he would rely on the Hamas-led government to restore calm on the Gaza side.
Neal, you have expressed yourself amply (and in a hate-mongering fashion) on this Comments board. Please wait 24 hours before contributing again. This would allow you to read other people’s contributions, perhaps even learn from them, and do some much-needed reflection.
If you come back in with more hate-mongering, expect it to be deleted.
Helena-
That seems to be a reasonable request of our Neal. Let’s see if he can restrain himself from contributing to that raucous noise reverberating around his head.
Given the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the gross imbalance of power between the two sides, it is amazing that some people like Neal continue to demand the Palestinians relent, submit, capitulate before the Israelis signal their willingness to live on the land with Palestinians as co-equals.
Such a signal would entail an agreement to welcome home Palestinian refugees within a broad territorial concession, such as large swaths of land connecting Gaza to the West Bank or additional pre-1948 areas in the Gallilee, in addition to returning East Jerusalem, WB, G, and Golan that were seized by the Israelis in open violation of international law.
What are the chances this would happen … or more to the point, what are the chances that these types of concessions would even be suggested to the Israelis? Slim to zero. Instead we will continue to hear how the Israelis live in fear of small, amatuer missiles fired from that tiny strip of land in Gaza.
For anyone who fairly considers the “balance of truths” between Israelis and Palestinians, the types of concessions mentioned above are the “direction forward” that provides any chance for a future in which Israelis and Palestinians can live peacefully together. The Palestinian nation needs bold concessions from the Israelis for peace to move forward.
May brotherhood and goodwill soon come to that unholy land.
But we are only talking about 32 (or, according to Kif in today’s NYT, 27) Qassam launchings in the past 11 days.
This is true, but the rockets have been falling for much more than 11 days. One rocket, or even 15 of them over 11 days, might not make a bombardment, but 686 rockets in two years do.
Also, while I’m not an expert on the subject, my guess is that it doesn’t take a great deal of random shelling before psychological effects begin to kick in. I suspect that, once a certain minimum threshold is reached, the difference between bombardments is largely a matter of degree. In any event, I know someone who lives in Sderot, and she assures me that Dore Gold’s words aren’t exaggerated by all that much.
And yes, the Qassams are also dangerous to the Palestinian population. Palestinians have been killed by the rocket fire; I believe there was one incident where a Qassam killed a six-year-old child in a refugee camp. By any purely military measure, the Qassams are ineffective and suicidal weapons, but the reason for their use is political rather than military.
If the arrival of 15 Qassams is terrifying how about the arrival of 2,200 much more lethal israeli artillery shells and 16 massive air strikes?
I agree with this. As I said above, I don’t approve of the shelling, which is as militarily ineffective and as much of a psy-war tactic as the Qassams themselves.
If the Israelis sincerely want the Qassams to stop, there is only one force even remotely capable of doing that, and that’s an empowered set of PA security forces.
I think a good deal also depends on Hamas’ willingness to establish a monopoly of force within Gaza. I’m not sure that anyone else, including the factionalized PA security forces, has both the capacity and the popular support to restrain the militant factions.
I’m cautiously optimistic that Hamas might actually do this. As you’ve pointed out before, Hamas is following the Hizbullah playbook, and one of HA’s policies is to assume sole control of the struggle within its operational area. There have also been recent reports in which Israeli and Palestinian security officials have been quoted as saying that Hamas is preparing to take action against the Qassams; unsourced reports should of course be taken for what they’re worth, but it’s interesting that both sides are reaching the same assessment.
I do however believe there’s a good chance that it will happen. The present situation is something of an interregnum in Israel. Hopefully with the arrival of a new government there will actually be a policy from it.
I hope you’re right, and I also think it might happen. Among other things, the Labor Party has demanded that the government guidelines include an end to the siege of Gaza.
“So which side do we think has been acting in a more escalatory way?”
— a good gauge would be to ask yourself two questions:
(1) If the Israeli air attacks ceased, would the Qassam barrage into pre-1967 Israel continue?
(2) If the Qassam rocket launches ceased, would the Israeli air attacks continue?
Actually, WmPeele, in answer to your two questions, I think the answer to both is No.
However, your questions do not speak to the issue of escalation of violence. They speak to perpetuation of violence. That’s also an important issue, but it is not the SAME issue.
Helena,
with all due respect, if your answer to Question #1 is NO, I have this bridge you may be interested in.
If Israel stopped its attacks– which have included attacks on PA security facilities, including very recently– then the PA wd have a much better chance of extending its control over the whole Strip. Both relevant branches of the PA government– Pres Abbas and PM Haniyeh– have expressed their intention to do this. And if they can get a little calm and the ability to plan and implement the necessary strategy it shd not take them too long to do it.
But with 200 Israeli artillery shells flying in every day?
Why are you so intent on obfuscating matters, WmP?
Ban Jonathan Edelstein!
The problem with this guy is he’s so reasonable, it’s practically impossible for anybody on either side to attack him and impune his character. Plus, since he uses his own name, we can’t even speculate about what a nefarious evildoer he might be in real life. In other words, the guy just doesn’t fit in around here. He should be banned from the site.