Iraq, which has now lived through 69 post-election days and still has no even faintly accountable national government in sight, witnessed a series of tragedies and tumults yesterday and today.
AP’s Ziad Khalaf has a pretty good compilation of the main ghastly things that happened there today. Primarily, the Golden Dome of the Askariya Mosque in Samarra was brought down by a small teams working around dawn with explosives… That’s the resting place of two of the 12 imams revered by Shiites in Iraq and elsewhere, and the location of one of the last known sightings of the last, ‘lost’ imam, and after news of the dome-demolition spread there were reprisal attacks on what Khalaf estimated were “more than 90 Sunni mosques” in Baghdad and the south.
At least seven people, including three clerics, were killed in these reprisal attacks.
- Added Thursday 3:30p.m. GMT: Please note that commenter Salah has put in a list of 128 “destroyed Mosques and Imams killed or assassinated”, in the Sunni community in response for the Askariya Mosque demolition… It’s in Arabic. Salah, that’s a sobering list. It would be great if you could give us a source for it.
In addition, many Shiite demonstrators blamed the US-UK occupation forces for the continued lawlessness in their country.
Khalaf wrote about Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani that he,
- sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, especially the major ones in Baghdad. He called for seven days of mourning, his aides said. But he later hinted, as did Iraqi Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi, that religious militias could be given a bigger security role if the government is not capable of protecting holy shrines.
All in all, the current situation inside Iraq seems eerily reminiscent of the situation around a year ago… Then too in the aftermath of an election in which the US’s favored candidate (on both occasions, Allawi) did not win, there was a long and very politically unclear period of inter-administration “transition”, in the course of which the level of violence soared ominously.
There are, however, two main differences between February 2005 and February 2006:
- (1) In February 2005, the US occupation authorities still had a ‘plan’ for continued political movement forward… However flawed it might have been as a plan, still it did offer all sides the possibility of further political changes to correct the then-existent problems. Not this year. This year, the ‘government’ that comes in will be IT. It will rule the country for the next four years… And along the way it will also be (a) finalizing all those controversial parts of the Iraqi Constitution, and (b) negotiating the timetable and terms of the US withdrawal. So the stakes are extremely high!
(2) In February 2006, Iraqis are probably even more fed up than they were a year ago with the continued US presence…
One methodological note. In Juan Cole’s account of the most recent events, he refers to the people who blew up the Askariya Mosque– as to those who killed 22 people in a bombing attack against a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad yesterday– as “guerrillas”. I think that term gives these bombers far too much respect. In both cases, the aim was to use attacks deliberately targeted against civilian persons or objects in pursuit of some kind of (unclear) political end. I think the word for that is “terrorism”. It’s heinous when it’s used against Israelis, and it’s heinous when it’s used against Arabs.
All Hamas does is occasional guerilla attacks. They never did anything close to the destruction of a major 10c mosque (although without direct losses)!
Helena, I don’t think you are right in saying that the Askari shrine in Samarra was bombed for unclear ends. The aim was very clear: stir up sectarian hatred and create the conditions for civil war. It was an ideal target: a major Shi’ite shrine in a Sunni town. Little protection. What is unclear is who did it.
I am certain it was not the local insurgents, who, though Sunni, are proud of their town.
That leaves al-Qa’ida and the US as possibilities.
The Mosque attack is incomprehensible. As though the factions realize that the US invasion is a short term affaire, but the centuries old Shia-Sunni fight is the one that matters. Sad.
Alastair, your hate is blinding you. The US is not even a possibility anymore than the Danish being possibly behind the attack.
Unlike you, Davis most Iraqis are well in touch with reality about their situation. That includes the reality that the U.S. invasion was never and is not now intended to be a short-term affair. Most Iraqis understand very clearly by now that the Bush admininstration undertook the invasion of Iraq with the intention of establishing a permanent controlling presence there militarily, politically, and economically, and, they are still determined to accomplish that end.
Please do not interpret my providing you with this reality check as justification for the attack on the shrine.
Alaistair,
I had the same thoughts. Who did it ? I even considered other neighbouring countries.
So let’s see, Al’Quaeda ? But the Mosquee was also honoured by the Sunnis, so why would they bring down a Mosquee if they are pious believers ? Because the target was really the Mosquee, not the people coming out. This doesn’t reflect the modus operandi of Al’Quaeda : usually they try to get as much casualties as they can, in order to make it to the media.
Some other more secular group, not having the same respect of the religious symbol ?
Iran ? in order to stirr chaos in Iraq and keep the Americans busy there ? But they are Shiites so it doesn’t really make sense for them to attack such a famous sacred symbol.
Saudi Arabia ? Well, they probably don’t want to stirr up troubles with their Shiites minorities. They don’t have much to earn in a civil war in Iraq.
In the end I think that the US has a mobile : she is loosing the control on the future government of Iraq and she has too much at stake to accept a timetable for the withdrawal. She wants permanent bases. What better pretext could she imagine to justify a longer presence in Iraq ? Plus the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld trio doesn’t seem incapable of such machiavelism. To them mosquees are like any other old historical building; the weeks after the invasion have shown how few they care for it. The more I think to it, the more it looks like a perfect target for a CIA operation : the symbol is so important that it is able to inflamme all pious Iraqis, provocing anger and retaliations between the different fractions.
This seems huge, but I can’t see many good reasons for other powers to bomb the shrines and destroy this jewel mosquee. I think that Al’Quaeda also wants to create chaos, but not by targeting a mosquee which is also sacred to the Sunnis.
Well, I’m usually not one to give the US government much credit for good intentions. However,it seems to me unlikely in the extreme that it was involved in this act.
Juan Cole was just on CBC radio speaking about this matter. He attributed this act to unspecified ‘guerillas’ without drawing a distinction between the native Sunni resistance and foreign elements. I think this is unfortunate; because most people here do not understand that the vast majority of the insurgency is Iraqi and not of foreign origin. Moreover, in the past at least, the majority of attacks against civilian targets were attributable to the relatively small numbers of foreign extremists.
Reffreshing your mind
Jack Straw said.
“Unlike in Afghanistan, although we are part of the security solution there, we are also part of the problem,” he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4737849.stm
Following up on references to Juan Cole’s remarks, one of the commenters on his blog, Abhinav Aima, said (and I quote),”But radicals from Salafi/Wahabi groups such as Al Quaeda, believe all shrines as blasphemous sites of idolatry and grave worship. They reject the idea of Imam Mahdi, and (it) would be well within their puritanical agenda in attacking Shiite mosques and shrines – especially as a retaliation to Shiite death squads.”
Following up on references to Juan Cole’s comments, one of the commenters on his blog, Abhinav Aima, said (and I quote) “But radicals from Salafi/Wahabi groups such as Al Quaeda, believe all shrines as blasphemous sites of idolatry and grave worship. They reject the idea of Imam Mahdi, and (it) would be well within their puritanical agenda in attacking Shiite mosques and shrines – especially as a retaliation to Shiite death squads.”
“although we are part of the security solution there, we are also part of the problem”
Mr Straw is being too kind. He seems to conveniently overlook the fact that the invaders/occupiers are the original cause of the security problem, and in no way at any time have they provided any kind of solution.
Frank, the Salafi/Wahabi groups are very clear in their desire to rid Islam of all things Shi`i. The question is how they managed to get past the Americans first, and second how they managed to avoid being detected and stopped by the Samarrans, who are not remotely of the same mind. Let us not forget that in addition to all the other considerations Samarrans have every motivation to keep the Shi`i shrines intact and bringing in the pilgrims by the thousands, and no motivation to see the shrines destroyed.
Frank, the Salafi/Wahabi groups are very clear in their desire to rid Islam of all things Shi`i. The question is how they managed to get past the Americans first, and second how they managed to avoid being detected and stopped by the Samarrans, who are not remotely of the same mind. Let us not forget that in addition to all the other considerations Samarrans have every motivation to keep the Shi`i shrines intact and bringing in the pilgrims by the thousands, and no motivation to see the shrines destroyed.
What’s Arnold’s line…”ignorant armies clash by night”.
Armies in Iraq. Armies of “players” and their attendant camp followers – “opinion makers” in particular. Armies many ripples further out – e.g., net hounds hundreds or thousands of miles away.
And that’s not to mention the “armies” of “ordinary people” in the “Arab street” – who, needless to say, are not-so-many-“ripples” further out.
All of which is by way of a preamble. Came across this link – http://markfromireland.blogsome.com/ – at firedoglake.
He says he spent most of yesterday translating “message boards” from the vortex. Or near the vortex. Certainly makes for interesting reading.
Here’s an example – he introduces it by saying it provoked “storms of applause”.
(And as for where I’m coming from…well, no particular axe to grind here…just offering it up in a “take-a-look-at-this-what-do-you-make-of-this?” spirit.)
Here’s a taster…
“My brothers this is no coincidence consider that in the space of a few days we have:
1. The Danish cartoons.
2. More photos of the evil the crusaders do in and are still doing in Abu Ghraib.
3. We have the British army assaulting Muslim children.
4. We have an “incident” at the jail. [I don’t know what incident this was but everyone else seemed to and this comment got lots of agreement. – mfi ]
5. Our brother Shiite’s mosques in Pakistan have been bombed just yesterday.
6. Just yesterday the massacre of Shiites and now;
7. This most heinous act of desecration.
No reasonable person can believe that any of these acts are random, they were all planned and co-ordinated by the Americans and the Danes and the English to plunge us to war so they can continue to rape our land.”
This one refers to America and the UK specifically.
“This serves the purposes of those who want civil war in Iraq, so they can keep stealing our resources.
It is logical to conclude unless they prove their innocence that it was planned by those same people.”
Shirin is right. I didn’t want to say this last night, as I wasn’t certain of my ground, but I am more now. I am fairly certain the attack on the Golden Dome was American inspired.
The arguments are:
The bomb was very large and highly effective, to judge by the photos. Professional, well-placed, no injuries to people. It was not a little job by the local insurgents.
A couple of weeks ago 35 young men from Samarra went to Baghdad in a bus for recruitment into the police, and on the way back were slaughtered by extremists. The Samarrans were said to have been extremely annoyed by this killing of their young men, and it is unlikely that they would have allowed outsider Jihadis/Salafis into their city to carry out today’s attack.
Also back in August-September the US forces bulldozed (built) an earth wall around the town. There are only three ways in through checkpoints manned by US troops. So the Jihadis would have had to get past US checkpoints, then negotiate the hostility of the Samarran population, then disable the guards and have plenty of time to lay two bombs carefully to wreck the building completely. I have never known the insurgents to have this level of competence.
Finally, I heard a spokesman of Muqtada al-sadr on the radio this morning accusing the US, and giving *details*.
It’s hard for me to believe that the US was involved in this. I don’t see why the US would seek to set off a civil war in Iraq, with its own troops in the middle. It was just two years ago that we had the delightful experience of fighting on two fronts against al-Sadr and the Sunni insurgents. Why would the we want to repeat that?
Does anybody, including the US and any faction inside Samarra, have control of that city of 200,000? I don’t think so.
The most obvious culprits are fanatical foreign Wahabi “fighters”. They have the motive, unfortunately. It also appears that the mosque was not that well guarded.
Yah, that very nice from you
Yes, destroying and rebuilding, how much money then you spend who pays and where it’s go, will follow 9 billions Sheikh Paul Bremer III went with it, and more money vanished no one knows, three years Iraq export of oil no one knows where is goes.
Why then US destroyed tens of Mosques in Faluja, Al-Anbar, Al-Qaeem, Heit Tel-La’afer, and other places, so now US like to build its fun yah..
The True Costs of the Iraq War
Joseph E. Stiglitz
List of destroyed Mosques and Imams killed or assassinated
جانب الرصافة من بغداد
1. جامع القدس ( كسرة وعطش ) احتل من قبل مسلحين (جيش المهدي)
2. جامع الشهيد ( شارع كسرة وعطش) احتل من قبل مسلحين
3. جامع الابرار : احتل من قبل مسلحين يقع في منطقة الداخل
4. جامع احمد رؤوف (البلديات قرب الاطفاء ) احتل من قبل مسلحين
5. جامع ضيوف الرحمن: (بلديات) احتل من قبل مسلحين
6. جامع القدس ( البلديات) محاصر من قبل مسلحين ويوجد مصلين محصورين داخل الجامع
7. فرع الرصافة الجنوبي : احتل من قبل مسلحي جيش المهدي
8. جامع الفياض (حي البنوك محلة 321) احتل من قبل مسلحين يرتدون زي الشرطة وفجر بثلاث عبوات ناسفة
9. جامع المهند (قرب الساحة المستنصرية- شارع فلسطين) احتل من قبل مسلحين
10. جامع الحسن بن علي: شارع فلسطين قرب ساحة بيروت مجاور وزارة الهجرة والمهاجرين احتل من قبل مسلحين
11. جامع عباد الله المتقين: شارع فلسطين احتل من قبل مسلحين
12. جامع الفردوس في حي أور هجوم ثان و تفجير المسجد بعبوات ناسفة وتهديمه بالكامل
13. جامع الخلفاء في حي أور هجوم ثان وتفجير المسجد بعبوات ناسفة وتهديمه بالكامل
14. جامع السلام في الشعب شارع الصحة تفجير المسجد بعبوات ناسفة وتهديمه بالكامل
15. جامع الودود في منطقة الشعب احتلال المسجد بعد هجوم مسلح.
16. جامع الرحمة في منطقة الشعب احتلال المسجد بعد هجوم مسلح.
17. جامع عمر بن عبد العزيز في منطقة الشعب احتلال المسجد بعد هجوم مسلح.
18. جامع الفاروق في شارع فلسطين اعتداء مسلح واقتحامه.
19. اختطاف عدد من أهل السنة في منطقة النهضة من محلاتهم من قبل مسلحين.
20. جامع طيبة في زيونة ضرب بقاذفة على قبة الجامع .
21. جامع 12 ربيع الأول : شارع فلسطين – حي المهندسين – اقتحم المسجد وضرب بالقاذفة وسُرقت ممتلكاته كاملة وسُرقت ممتلكات بيت الشيخ والنقود واعتقلوا حارس المسجد.
22. جامع آل البيت – شارع فلسطين – حي النيل – اقتحام المسجد وحرقه ونهب جميع ممتلكاته وأثاثه.
23. جامع حسن البارح : في السبع ابكار قرب الوقف السني – هجوم بالقاذفات.
24. جامع الخضيري في الكراده – قرب شارع المسبح – هجوم مسلح
25. جامع القدوس : في الكاظمية – تطويق الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
26. جامع قباء : منطقة الشعب – الاستيلاء على الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
27. جامع آل يس في منطقة جميلة – تطويق الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
28. جامع سيد الشهداء : في منطقة جميلة – تطويق الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
29. جامع زيد : منطقة جميلة – احتلال الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
30. جامع البديع :منطقة الحسينية – احتلال الجامع من قبل مسلحين.
31. هجوم ثالث على جامع النداء.
32. جامع الخلفاء : حي اور قرب السدة ضرب بعيارات نارية وقنابل ويوجد عدد من الشهداء
33. جامع بدرية: منطقة الطالبية قرب ساحة 83 اعتداء مسلح
34. جامع الفردوس : حي اور اعتداء مسلح
35. جامع مصعب بن عمير : البنوك شارع الكنيسة اعتداء مسلح وجرح احد المصلين و ضرب مرة ثانيه بقاذفة فأصابت المأذنة
36. جامع الحق : منطقة الشعب شارع الصحة تعرض إلى اعتداء مسلح
37. جامع السادة النعيم : تقاطع الشعب – الصليخ تعرض إلى اعتداء مسلح
38. جامع النداء : حي القاهرة تعرض إلى اعتداء مسلح
39. جامع عباد الرحمن : شارع فلسطين محلة 505 ضرب بقنبلتين مع اطلاقات بي كي سي وضرب مرة اخرى بقذائف هاون وسقوط عدد من الشهداء جامع عباد الرحمن
40. جامع الحاجة فوزية: شارع فلسطين محلة 503 اقتحام الجامع واختطاف المؤذن بعد ضربه ضربا مبرحا بالعصي واصابته بكسور واخذه إلى جهة مجهولة
41. جامع ابو عبيدة : حي القاهرة اعتداء مسلح
42. جامع العاني : الوزيرية مقابل المكتبة المركزية اعتداء مسلح
43. جامع مالك بن انس : بغداد الجديدة حي المعلمين ضرب بقنابل صوتية وعيارات نارية من قبل جيش المهدي
44. جامع عثمان بن عفان : بغداد الجديدة النعيرية محلة 709 اعتداء مسلح
45. اشتباك بين عناصر من جيش المهدي واهالي منطقة الصليخ ادى إلى احراق سيارة من جيش المهدي وقتل من فيها
46. جامع السامرائي : بعداد الجديدة اعتداء مسلح
47. جامع حي العمال : البلديات اعتداء مسلح
48. جامع النصير في حي النصر والسلام احتل من قبل مسلحين
49. جامع الهدى في حي الشهداء – العبيدي احتل من قبل مسلحين
50. جامع ابو ذر في الكمالية احتل من قبل مسلحين
51. جامع المعلمين في حي المعلمين بغداد الجديدة احتل من قبل مسلحين
52. جامع الخضيري في الكرادة
مناطق أخرى
53. جامع سلمان باك في المدائن
54. جامع ابو القاسم منطقة الشعب (احتلال)
55. جامع انس بن مالك في المشتل محاصر من قبل جيش المهدي
56. جامع الودود في في حي اور .
57. جامع الاسراء احتلال المسجد منطقة نواب الضباط – بغداد الجديدة واللطمية تبث عبر المسجد
58. جامع الصفا احتلال المسجد منطقة نواب الضباط – بغداد الجديدة واللطمية تبث عبر المسجد
59. جامع المصطفى احتلال المسجد منطقة نواب الضباط – بغداد الجديدة واللطمية تبث عبر المسجد
60. جامع عبد الله بن مظعون – منطقة الشعب – اقتحام واحراق المسجد.
61. جامع الجهاد – منطقة الشعب – احتلال المسجد من قبل مسلحين.
62. جامع النذير البشير – الشعب – اشتباك حارسي الجامع مع جيش المهدي وقتل ثلاثة عناصر منهم ثم انسحبا بعد نفاذ الذخيرة وتم الاستيلاء على الجامع وحرقه.
63. جامع نصار – بغداد الجديدة –م715 قرب الملجأ حرق من قبل مسلحين وسلب واحتلال المسجد.
64. جامع اسماء ذات النطاقين- بغداد الجديدة – النعيرية – هجوم مسلح
65. جامع الإسراء والمعراج – حي الأمين – بغداد الجديدة – هجوم بالقذائف.
66. جامع أبو القاسم – بغداد الجديدة – نواب الضباط – هجوم بعيارات نارية
67. جامع النقيب الشهيد – المشتل – حي الرئاسة – هجوم باطلاقات نارية وحرق الجامع.
68. جامع محمد الفاتح – المشتل – هجوم مسلح بالقاذفات
69. جامع آل سمين – حي المعلمين – بغداد الجديدة – هجوم مسلح
70. جامع الفرقان – الصليخ الجديد- هجوم بعيارات نارية
71. جامع الراشدي – الحسينية – احتلال المسجد بعد استشهاد الشيخ عامر الزوبعي رحمه الله دفاعا عنه.
72. اعتقال الشيخ صفاء الحيالي في الحسينية ، و إطلاق سراحه بعد ذلك بعد إجباره على شتم أهل السنة بواسطة مكبرات المسجد
احتلال مساجد اهل السنة على اثر تفجير الامام علي الهادي يوم الاربعاء 22/2/ 2003 في جامع الحمزة : الغزالية قرب الشعلة هجوم مسلح واقتحام الجامع واحراقه
جانب الكرخ من بغداد
73. جامع ام القرى: الغزالية اعتداء مسلح مرتين
74. جامع السبطين منطقة حي العامل هجوم مسلح واطلاق نار
75. جامع الهدى في السيدية هجوم مسلح قذيفة اربي جي سفن
76. جامع عبد الرحمن بن عوف هجوم مسلح
77. جامع القدس في حي العامل هجوم مسلح واحتلال المسجد من قبل مظاهرة مسلحه وتغيير اسمه واعلان اغلاقه لمدة ثلاثة أيام.
78. جامع الأقطاب الأربعة في حي العامل – تم ضربه بصاروخين قاذفات
79. اعتدء على جامع فرج علي الصالح ..اقتحام والعبث بمحتوياته.
80. جامع السامرائي في حي العامل هجوم مسلح واحتلال المسجد من قبل مظاهرة مسلحه وتغيير اسمه واعلان اغلاقه لمدة ثلاثة أيام.
81. جامع القدوس في الكاظمية – تطويق الجامع من قبل مسلحين
82. جامع الزيدان في حي السلام
83. جامع يس في الدورة تم نسفه بالكامل
84. جامع الرسالة في منطقة الدورة تم نسفه بالكامل
85. جامع البستاني : منطقة الاعلام ضرب بقذيفة هاون
86. جامع البطاوي : منطقة الشعلة – اقتحام المسجد واحراقه
87. جامع الرحمة : منطقة الشعلة – اقتحام المسجد واحراقه.
88. جامع المصطفى : منطقة الاعلام حي الشباب هجوم مسلح
89. جامع الحمزة : منطقة التراث اعتداء باطلاقات نارية
90. جامع الرحمة : العطيفية اعتداء مسلح
91. جامع الكبيسي في حي الشرطة – الشهداء هجوم مسلح بقذيفتين اربي جي
92. تهديد جوامع محافظة الديوانية طلب اخلائها مثل جامع الكبير وجامع شهداء حطين
93. تهديد عدد من جوامع الناصرية
94. جامع الديوانية الكبير
95. جامع شهداء حطين في الديوانية
96. محاصر فرع الحزب الاسلامي في البصرة واحراقه وجرح احد اعضاء الحزب والباقي محصورون داخل المبنى الذي يحترق ومن ضمنهم عضو مجلس النواب القادم عن البصرة الشيخ خلف الشيخ عيسى.
97. مركز الرصافة للحزب الاسلامي العراقي اعتداء مسلح
98. شعبة الزعفرانيه للحزب الاسلامي العراقي اعتداء مسلح
99. احراق مقام الصحابي الجليل طلحة بن عبيد الله في البصرة
100. جامع الفيحاء في البصرة – ضرب بقاذفات آر بي جي
101. جامع العشرة المبشرة: مدينة البصرة اعتداء مسلح
102. احراق معمل شعرية النجوم في بغداد الجديدة العائد إلى احد تجار السنة الحاج نصار
الاغتيالات والانتقالات والشهداء:
103- الشهيد الشيخ غازي الزوبعي إمام وخطيب أحد المساجد في الحسينية اثاء الهجوم على المسجد من قبل مسلحين
104الشهيد الشيخ خليل سلامه النداوي إمام وخطيب جامع الراشدين في الحسينية
105 شهيد الشيخ حسن امام وخطيب جامع اليمان – الزعفرانية
106 الشهيد علي يسر – جامع يس في الدورة
1الشهيد محمد الجنابي مع ابنته استشهدوا في دارهم
107 – الجريح الشيخ عبد المجيد رشيد اصابة بالغة .
108- الجريح محمد غالب – يرقد في مستشفى البصرة التعليمي
109- اعتقال الشيخ علي حسين الدليمي
110-اعتقال انس حسين الدليمي
111- اعتقال حسن حسين الدليمي
112- اعتقال عمار سمير العاني – منطقة حي الكيلاني . النهضة .
113-الجريح وهاب حمزة – البصرة ( حرس في الوقف السني )
114- الجريح سهيل نجم – البصرة ( حرس في الوقف السني )
115- الجريح علي جاسم – البصرة ( حرس في الوقف السني )
116- الجريح علاء رشيد بربوتي – البصرة ( حرس في الوقف السني )
117- الشهيد يحيى شاكر شلال – جامع الحمزة في البصرة
118 – اعتقال ثمانية من اهل السنة في منطقة ابو دشير
119- حرق سوق الدورة وحرق تسعة محلات
120- اعتقال الشيخ احمد عبد الخالق امام وخطيب جامع الصفا في بغداد الجديدة
121- اعتقال اثنان من اهل السنّة في الديوانية :
· احمد عمار عوض .
· سجيل محمد علي .
122- اعتقال اولاد الحاج حميد الظفيري في منطقة بغداد الجديدة –نواب الضباط .
123- احتلال مقر الحزب الاسلامي في الديوانية .
124- احتلال مديرية الوقف السنّي في الديوانية .
125- الاعتداء على جامع حطين بالاسلحة الخفيفة واعتقال احد حراسه والآخر مصاب اصابة خطيرة في باب المسجد .
126- استشهاد محمد الجنابي مع ابنته (استشهدا في دارهم ) .
127- استشهاد الشيخ خليل – امام وخطيب جامع الراشدي – الحسينية .
128- استشهاد الشيخ حسن – امام وخطيب جامع اليمان – الزعفرانية .
No Preference,
We have to few elements in order to make clear assumptions as to who was behind the bombing of Samara. We don’t even know for sure how well prepared it was and how much skill it needed to make it happen.
But if we look at the mobile : IMO, US has one big mobile to create chaos in Iraq, because the elections didn’t go as they would have liked, lately, they don’t seem to be able to have the government they wanted (with Jaafari as primer minister). The emergence of Muktada Al Sadr as a powerfull man, trying to unite both Shiites and Sunni, requiring a withdrawal time table etc… that is absolutely not what they wanted. The US in the mind of the warmonger trio (BUsh, Cheney, Rumsfeld) was in Iraq for a long time; they are even building four huge permanent bases. If they don’t want to face a vote of the parliament asking for withdrawal in the 12-18th coming months, their only justification is to have enough chaos to justify their presence longer.
Then what about the UN resolution 1546 ? When the new government is installed, the US occupation can’t legally go on, unless the Iraqi parliament says differently. After all the manipulative lies the US has told concerning WMD etc. in order to justify the invasion, I won’t trust any of the Bush government. They are of the school that “the end justifies the means”, no matter how dirty they are.
Extremists (Salafists/Wahabis) may also have mobiles : to create chaos and difficulties for the Americans, in order to prolounge the fight with the Americans. Alaistair think that they couldn’t manage to do it without the US knowing it. But I’m not sure how far the US is really able to control who comes in/out of Samara, despite the earth wall surrounding the city. The US military is notoriously weak in fighting against the insurgency. But on the other hand, this bombing doesn’t seem to bear the mark of Al Quaeda : no suiccide bombers, no high number of reported casualties (as stated by Alastair). First I also thought that they wouldn’t bomb a holy site, but Shirin knows better and think that they would do it, since they don’t appreciate the Shiite idolatry surrounding these shrines (even if some Sunnis reveres the place as well).
May be that was the fact of secular baathists who think they have nothing left to loose ? They claim that they don’t target civilians Iraqis; They would have the military skills, the ammunition, the possibility to melt in the local people, if they weren’t local people.
No Preference,
It also appears that the mosque was not that well guarded.
There is curfew from 8pm till 6am, thier was grads and peoples inside they are handcuffed when few Terrorists put the TNT around the Dome
BTW, those you call them “fanatical foreign Wahabi “fighters”” as per US report are 10%!!!! of all the resistance in Iraq.
including the US and any faction inside Samarra, have control of that city of 200,000? I don’t think so.
No, NO US did not have control all of Iraq you are right, but US control The Oil Ministry and all Iraqi oil fields.
There are, however, two main differences between February 2005 and February 2006
I agree 100%.
I think that term gives these bombers far too much respect. In both cases, the aim was to use attacks deliberately targeted against civilian persons or objects in pursuit of some kind of (unclear) political end. I think the word for that is “terrorism”.
All the term guerilla means is irregular, nonuniformed fighter. The problem with the term terrorists is that it is emotionally negative. The same aim can be achieved by saying vicious guerilla. Just my $0.02 🙂
Bushies and neocons have extented the meaning of the words terrorists and terrorism so far, that nowadays it can mean anything, provided the US is fighting against them/it. It is the reason why I don’t like to use it.
We are back to the same kind of propaganda discourse which were heard during the cold war and the period of MacCarthism.
Hmmm. How sweet if someone would simply say: “What a terrible act. Let all support a proper non-sectarian police investigation and bring the perpetrators (even if Iraqi Sunnis) to justice?”
Yet some already blame sinister outsiders for the bombing. They say the blast was too professional to be the work of Sunni insurgents. They go to great lengths to exonerate Iraqis. The perennially culpable Great Satan its secret minions fit into another dark conspiracy.
This is preposterous! No matter what one thinks about the US, it makes zero sense to think American leaders would blow up a holy shrine and spark a civil war to attain control over oil. The US forces are already over-stretched and tired. An extended civil war can do nothing to facilitate an orderly “redeployment.” The US would much rather buy Iraqi oil and leave the local security problem to Iraqis. Civil violence and prolonged discord only ruin the prospects for stable oil flows. Neither would the bombing do a thing to raise the morale of W’s “base” for continued expenses and casualties. It only makes the situation more intractable, obscure, and difficult to support at November election time.
“Outsiders” are always the first accused, the last excused, any time there is a tragedy. Laurie Mylroie sought to blame the 1995 Oklahoma bombing on Saddam! Timothy McVeigh was supposedly his stooge. Cheney, Fox News, and the WSJ editorial page still persuade many Americans to equate 9/11 and the Iraq. The common arugment: “If they’re so dumb, how come they’re rich?” UFOs are the perennial explanation for all kinds of cornfield mischief. More gets published on astrology than astronomy. Cartoons have an enormous power. The Koran affirms the existence of genies and evil elves. So why not blame the latest bombing on … on Elvis in black PJs!
No Sunnis want to claim the horrible deed. But their priority seems to be to deflect violent reprisals.
Ideally, impartial forensic and judicial work will find the real perpetrators. Unfortunately, one fears that progress on the case will wane if the investigators come up against a “wall of silence” or if the leads point to local Sunni complicity that will make it harder to reconcile the sects. Equally bad, authorities might quickly nab some low-end miscreant (a Padilla) or jailbird “Otis” and make him the scapegoat. They might go out of their way to exonerate the “heckuvah job, Brownie” local officials who failed to protect the mosque and bungled the follow-up. These will be happy to let the “street” believe that foreign devils did it all.
“a perfect target for a CIA operation”
or, more likely, the Mossad.
As for No Preference’s remark as to Why would the US want to carry out this horrible attack on the shrine in Samarra. The answer is quite simple and it has been widely discussed. The problem is that Iraqi public opinion has turned against the Americans, and may well call for departure of the US forces in the not too far distant future.
Certain figures in the Pentagon and the White House are keen on retaining “permanent” bases in Iraq, as Christiane has reminded us. In view of the hostility of public opinion in Iraq, the only way to retain permanent bases is to split the country, create fear, and make the Shi’a want the US to stay in order to protect them. Stimulating civil war is the way.
There you are, it is quite simple. It is intended to avoid the US forces being asked to leave by the Iraqi parliament.
By the way Christiane says that nobody knows what could happen, what could have happened in Samarra. This is not true. What I told you really represents the best knowledge you can have at the moment. Just by chance I know Samarra personally quite well.
I don’t believe the Zionists have assets in Iraq to perform such an operation even tho Juan Cole today reported that “Iran is blaming Bush and the Israelis.” As Iraqi leader Abdul Aziz al-Hakim made crystal clear, the statements of the US ambassador in Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, “gave a green light to” the bombers of the Askariyah Shrine “and therefore…[America]… bears responsibility.”
Alastair’s scenario is ridiculous. The United States wants a stable Iraq. Stable so that it can operate its bases in peace. Also stable to look like a triumph of Bush policy. There’s no way the Bush administration could want this chaos, which is endangering the troops we have there. Public opinion is against the occupation. I’m sure that it’s much more against in the wake of this attack. I think the Shi’ites would be more inclined to turn against the US than less, for failing to protect the shrine.
It’s really a shame that discussion of this horrid vandalism has deteriorated into lunatic fringe conspiracies against U.S. and even Israeli forces.
Actually, speculation over who committed this act was not what I’ve been wanting to say.
All this time what I really want to say is my condolences and my shock to the people of Iraq and to the world Shia community. This action against the shrine is unthinkable. It’s the destruction of a part of the human race’s heritage. I feel so badly for Shi’ites who have lost a vital symbol of their culture. I only thank God that no one’s life was lost in the attack. I hope that the shrine can be repaired as quickly as possible, for Iraq to regain this heritage.
I really think that instead of conspiracy theories what we should be giving the most is condolences to Iraq for this loss.
Inkan,
Many of the frequent commenters on this blog have disagreed with you in the past, as have I without commenting, but I wish to thank you now for your heartfelt expression of condolence.
I am not going to waste my time replying to Inkan unless he has a better argument. There’s absolutely no reason to suppose that the US doesn’t undertake black operations.
“It’s really a shame that discussion of this horrid vandalism has deteriorated into lunatic fringe conspiracies against U.S. and even Israeli forces.”
sadly, all too many threads here, regardless of the subject, inexorably degenerate into anti-American, anti-Israeli conspiracy theories.
Maybe it’s too soon to say this, but personnally, I admire the way Iraqis have so far managed to continuously pull back from the brink of civil war. The bombing of the Golden mosque was an opportunity and excuse for extremists on any and all sides to stir up fears among the people and begin a Lebanon-style sectarian-based civil war. But the extremists voices have so far been drowned out by credible responsible leaders.
If Iraq can survive this incident, this may be a turning point. Iraqi leaders worked simultaneously (not necessarily together) to prevent violence from spiralling out-of-control without any positive intervention from the US. This confirms that the US has lost most of its control over the political process in Iraq.
Of course, things could still get a lot worse.
WaltWhitman wrote :
“sadly, all too many threads here, regardless of the subject, inexorably degenerate into anti-American, anti-Israeli conspiracy theories.”
I’m following this blog since a long time but didn’t read many conspiracy theories here. Apart of this one. It’s legitimate to ask ourselves who could have commited this act, since it’s not clear. I envisaged several options if you read me again.
Anti-American feelings however can be read here. But they aren’t specific to this website and largely reflect how the US is seen now in the rest of the world. I’d say that more than Anti-American feelings, it’s anti-Bush feelings, anti-warmongers feelings.
US has illegaly invaded a foreign country who wasn’t threatening her on false accusations concerning the WMD. US is bullyied even his best allies in the NATO when they refused to follow her in this adventure. US has ruined years of multilateralism in the UN which she contributed to forge. And you want that us in the rest of the world continue to love you as if nothing had happened ? You have reelected this government, so now this come with a price : you are hated in the rest of the world, because we react to facts, not to manipulative discourses.
Christiane, many people here are condemning aid freezes to the Palestinian Authority because of the election of Hamas. Such actions punish the whole Occupied Terrority populace for electing that government. I didn’t even vote for Bush myself. But why do we have to pay a price for electing his government, any more than Palestinians have to pay any price for electing Hamas.
Inkan asked : “But why do we have to pay a price for electing his government, any more than Palestinians have to pay any price for electing Hamas.”
You have not only elected, but reelected Bush who has waged a war of aggression against a country who wasn’t threatening the US, nor any of its neighbours at the time of invasion.
On the other hand, the Palestinians are living in an occupied country, so you can’t really compare the two situations.
Why should we have sympathy for a country who believes he can attack anyone because he owns the strongest army and the biggest weapons ? There are some individuals who are engaged against the war and the Bush policy whom I respect and appreciate, but I can’t forget that a majority of Americans supported this war of aggression and Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld imperialist/colonialist policy.
Bush bullied even his allies who tried to warn him that invading Iraq was a risky policy (..forgive the Germans, ignore the Russian and punish the French). I’ve been living in Geneva for almost twenty years and I can’t forget either what the neocons and Bushists have done to the UN and to multilateralism. I fear that they have destroyed fifty years of patient work building (perfectible) tools in order to maintain peace and human rights.
The US has committed many atrocities during the Vietnam war and also many others in Latin America during the second half of the XXth century. But I can’t remember any US government openly justifying torture, or openly denying the right to get a fair trial for any suspect. When a government isn’t ashamed to justify such actions, totalitarism isn’t very far away.
Well to sum up, I don’t see why you’d be surprised if the rest of the world has a gripe with you.
Inkan asked : “But why do we have to pay a price for electing his government, any more than Palestinians have to pay any price for electing Hamas.”
You have not only elected, but reelected Bush who has waged a war of aggression against a country who wasn’t threatening the US, nor any of its neighbours at the time of invasion.
On the other hand, the Palestinians are living in an occupied country, so you can’t really compare the two situations.
Why should we have sympathy for a country who believes he can attack anyone because he owns the strongest army and the biggest weapons ? There are some individuals who are engaged against the war and the Bush policy whom I respect and appreciate, but I can’t forget that a majority of Americans supported this war of aggression and Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld imperialist/colonialist policy.
Bush bullied even his allies who tried to warn him that invading Iraq was a risky policy (..forgive the Germans, ignore the Russian and punish the French). I’ve been living in Geneva for almost twenty years and I can’t forget either what the neocons and Bushists have done to the UN and to multilateralism. I fear that they have destroyed fifty years of patient work building (perfectible) tools in order to maintain peace and human rights.
The US has committed many atrocities during the Vietnam war and also many others in Latin America during the second half of the XXth century. But I can’t remember any US government openly justifying torture, or openly denying the right to get a fair trial for any suspect. When a government isn’t ashamed to justify such actions, totalitarism isn’t very far away.
Well to sum up, I don’t see why you’d be surprised if the rest of the world has a gripe with you.
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley.asp
“Everything that is going on between Sunnis and Shiites, the troublemaker in the middle is America.”
Clinically perfect US-centric cosmology. The author of the phrase imagines the US is all powerful in Iraq (contra all known fact) and that the US has an interest in fomenting civil unrest and violence (a falsehood along the lines of “up is down.”)
Salah, even your cui bono conspiracy theories & superstitions are failing you here. Knee-jerk anti-Americanism won’t cure Iraq of its ills. When the US leaves Iraq, your iraqi brethren will sadly continue to suffer and die in terrorist acts such as this, perhaps in greater numbers than before. Who will you blame then? Israel?
vadim,
Yore ZIONET ideology will be ill thinking Vadim, as your follow trying to convinced Americans to get support for your conspiracy theories in ME the latest spited from your Israeli official that “King Abdullah will last King” who’s the conspiracies here?
and what Latin America told us about US in A Salvador, Nigaraqwa and other places and before that Iran in 1950 when the brought Shah Iran to the power all these lies Vadim, can you denied these facts Vadim it better to get from Iraq it will be civil war with Americans or without why you care ARE YOU IRAQI LOVER?
when the brought Shah Iran to the power
Salah on an earlier thread you were telling us how you personally participated in the devastating invasion of Iran. I think you also mentioned helping out with the illegal invasion of Kuwait. Or did I get it wrong and maybe were you a conscientious objector in each of these cases?
Mind telling us what you did to bring these wars to an end, or the regime behind them?
Most of you are trying to figure out who bombed the mosque on the basis of “Who benefits?”.
This method doesn’t work. Anybody can “Bomb the Reichstag” (look it up).
Nobody benefits from the bombing of the mosque. Nobody benefited from the 9/11 attacks on the US, either. It doesn’t work that way.
It doesn’t work that way partly because other people don’t think like you do. Different people think differently. Germany didn’t benefit from invading Poland, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Come to think of it, the US probably hasn’t benefited from invading Iraq, and Iraq surely didn’t benefit from invading Kuwait.
In 1967, Nasser evicted the UN peacekeepers from the Egypt-Israeli border, and didn’t benefit.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Vadim,
There are facts about what US; Israelis did in the past if some one comes here and telling us like what you said, I can say more than this is like some one Blind and Duff.
With your accusations to me its better speaks about your believes and your supports whom invaded West bank, Golan Heights Sinai and other Arab land without any illegible bases, without respect to any international law. If it’s illegal for other why when it’s come in your case its legal and self-defence!!! It’s Just Rubbish.
There is no point to urge some one can’t see far from his noise…
Statement of Judith S. Yaphe to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
July 9, 2003
Any one can tell me one truth from her statement?
Vadim, all about to spreads the fear between the people using this fear to build on for more chaos like what we see in Iraq, most who have say in US politics keep saying its will be a Civil War if US leave Iraq!!!, but the reality is did you really US leave Iraq soon? No of course from building 14 military bases and rising chaos to keep saying we are the safety valve in Iraq, that’s just a lie like all lies we heard by those expertises like Judith S. Yaphe who support Israel and defending Israel with all the untruthfully points she rise about Iraq and all the fear she put to be used to destroy A state of Iraq.
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