Jordan (and again, Iraq)

Do I need to write anything here to note how grotesque the thinking was of the people who organized and undertook suicide bombings against the three hotels in Jordan yesterday.
In at least one of the hotels, most of the people were killed were participants in a wedding feast. It is widely known in all the Arab countries that have big US-franchised hotels that one principal use of the ballrooms in such hotels is for wedding parties held by well-heeled (and sometimes not so well-heeled) members of the local community. Why bomb them? Why bomb civilian targets at all?
If the “grievance” of the bombers is with members of the local business or political community who might be profiting from the war in Iraq, there would be so many better ways of organizaing against that phenomenon. Through mass, nonviolent social action to force political change at the national level, for example…
But killing participants in a wedding feast? That is simply inhumane.
59 people died in those three bombings.
And today in Iraq, bombers killed 42 people at a restaurant… troops found 27 decomposing bodies near the Iranian border… and the US military proudly announced it had killed 37 “insurgents”.
Visiting British Foreign Minister Jack Straw was quoted as saying, “This is a very exciting time to visit Iraq.”
Tasteless? I’d say.

35 thoughts on “Jordan (and again, Iraq)”

  1. There are some stories in the media – Haaretz, LA Times – stating that Israeli hotel guests were evaqcuated previous to the blasts.
    Tied in with Netayahu’s warnings in London, it’s getting a little fishy. I’m wondering if Likud isn’t pulling these blasts and trying to pin it on the four-times-dead-and-rerisen Zarqawi.

  2. There is no story here. Haaretz ran an initial story based on confusion and bad information. They made no attempt to cover this up, and even printed a retraction.
    There was quite a bit of confusion. I heard the Israeli ambassador interviewed on Israel Radio Reshet Bet hours after the blasts, and there was still confusion within Israel as to whether or not the Israelis were still in Amman or had left for Israel. This was when the first word came out that an Israeli had been killed in one of the explosions – so obviously all Israelis had not been evacuated prior to the blast.
    The LA Times story, if you read it, does nothing more than restate what was (erroneously) written in Haaretz.
    Netanyahu did not get any prior warning in London. This was all speculation.
    This whole thing reminds me of the story of the supposed warnings sent out to Israelis prior to 9/11. This all began on Manara television, with Hizballah claiming that there were 5,000 Israelis who worked in the WTC, and that none had shown up for work that day. Investigations showed that this story, in turn, was based on a statement from the Israel Foreign Ministry stating that their emergency number had received calls from roughly 5,000 worried parents and relatives of Israelis who may have been in the US at the time, wanting FM help in locating them. The story was then promulgated througout the Middle East where it was claimed that over 5,000 Jews who worked in the WTC did not report for work that morning because they had been warned.
    Of course the whole story is bunk. There were at least two Israelis killed in the WTC, and another on one of the AA flights. There were, possibly, hundreds of Jews killed at the WTC, the Pentagon and on the flights.
    If you’re looking for something “fishy”, you might try the conspiracy mills of the Middle East. (I’m sure that Salah will see this and direct you to them fothwith.)

  3. “There were, possibly, hundreds of Jews killed at the WTC, the Pentagon and on the flights.”
    Absolutely correct and theories of this kind are quite distasteful.

  4. These events in Amman and Baghdad are so horrific. I extend my sympathy to the survivors and the victims’ relatives as much as I can.
    BTW: Oddly, in the wake of the bombings the Labor party unexpectedly elected a new leader. News reports about Amir Peretz talk about his socialist background and his North African background. He supposedly is planning on breaking up the coalition in order to call early elections. I think he might be s source of hope then. I feel the ouster of Sharon is an important factor in achieving peace. If Peretz could take over and his background descriptions are true then maybe hew would be more inclined to end the expansionist policies in the West Bank, and then end the WB and EJ occupation altogether. Peretz might be the key we need for the Israeli part in achieving peace, and then these bombings can end. Let’s cross our fingers.

  5. Horrific but probably inevitable. In the minds of the Sunnis Jordan has been acting as a defacto ally of the U.S. I’d think that the visibly western aspects of Jordan should be avoided from now on.

  6. Although I personally voted for Peres two days ago, I very much admire Amir Peretz. One of the things that he has been clear about is that settlement policy has taken needed funds from Israel’s poor.
    Unfortunately, I’m not certain what his chances are of bringing the Labour Party back into power. I fully expect Sharon and Peres to form a centrist party prior to the elections.

  7. Through mass, nonviolent social action to force political change at the national level, for example…
    Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s Monotheism and Jihad group for mass, nonviolent social action…
    Nah, not gonna happen.

  8. According to the Army Times, “Operation Steel Curtain” is turning into yet another tromp through deserted villages, long after the resistance has melted away. Gosh, how’d they see us coming this time?
    The chilling part of the story concerns a triangle shaped collection of neighborhoods in the heart of Karabilah that the Marines call the “Shark Fin:”
    “The Shark Fin has been targeted for a month by Marine snipers, heavy weapons and air strikes, as spotters in positions just outside the area have called in attacks against insurgents.”
    It’s a lovely day in the neighborhood. Would you be my neighbor?
    http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1246336.php

  9. “There were, possibly, hundreds of Jews killed at the WTC
    This is untrue!! just look to the old news you will find the answer for that.

  10. it is sad that we can’t have a rational discussion of the impact of Iraq instability on Jordan and other neighboring countries without someone injecting a ludicrous Protocol-of-the-Elders-of-Zion conspiracy theory that the Jews must be to blame because they were somehow tipped off in advance about a looming 9/11, Bali, Amman, etc., suicide bombing attack…this is a pathetic distraction from what is otherwise, for the most part, a high level of discourse provided by Helena’s blog.

  12. “This was when the first word came out that an Israeli had been killed in one of the explosions – so obviously all Israelis had not been evacuated prior to the blast.”
    It was an Israeli Arab killed in the blast. The LA Times has NOT retracted its story about Israelis being evacuated and even interviewed an IDF officer that agree with the evacuation story.

  13. “a ludicrous Protocol-of-the-Elders-of-Zion conspiracy theory that the Jews must be to blame”
    Likud is not “the Jews”. Ariel Sharon is still a terrorist.

  14. Suicide Attacks Kill at Least 57 at 3 Hotels in Jordan’s Capital, 11/10/05
    …Amos N. Guiora, a former senior Israeli counter-terrorism official, said in a phone interview with The Times that sources in Israel had also told him about the pre-attack evacuations.
    “It means there was excellent intelligence that this thing was going to happen,” said Guiora, a former leader of the Israel Defense Forces who now heads the Institute for Global Security Law and Policy at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. “The question that needs to be answered is why weren’t the Jordanians working at the hotel similarly removed?”

  15. “There is no truth to reports that Israelis staying at the Radisson SAS hotel in Amman on Wednesday were evacuated by Jordanian security forces before the bombing that took place there.
    The Israelis were escorted back to Israel by Jordanian security personnel only after the attacks had taken place, contrary to earlier reports.”
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643661.html
    Even if the earlier reports were 100% true, it was the Jordanian security forces that allegedly warned the Israeli guests and escorted them out.
    What the Jordanian security forces have to do with “Likud” – well, I’m sure there’s some conspiracy theorist (non-Israeli/Jew hating, of course) who has that all figured out.
    Also, nevermind the sister of Zarqawi’s erstwhile deputy who admitted her and her husband’s part in the plot today. They are probably all “Likud” too.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/jordan_explosion
    Never let facts get in the way of someone’s anti-Israel fun. As if Sharon doesn’t provide enough actual material to complain about, someone always has to insist there is more. It would be amazing if it hasn’t been going on for centuries.

  16. “I’m sure there’s some conspiracy theorist (non-Israeli/Jew hating, of course)”
    Save it. I’m Jewish.
    The fact is, an IDF officer (Amos N. Guiora) said “pre-attack evacuations” in the LA Times and it hasn’t been corrected or retracted.
    Ariel Sharon should be on trial with Saddam. So should Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ledeen and the rest of the Neocons. They all give Christians and Jews a bad name.
    I’m always amazed when we go looking for external enemies when we have quite a crop of our own undealt with war criminals amongst us.

  17. JD,
    The fact that you are Jewish has no bearing whatsoever on the discussion, or on your unfounded accusations.
    Here is what Amos Guiora, presented as “a former senior Israeli counter-terrorism official” had to say (according to the LA Times article):
    “It means there was excellent intelligence that this thing was going to happen,” said Guiora, a former leader of the Israel Defense Forces who now heads the Institute for Global Security Law and Policy at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. “The question that needs to be answered is why weren’t the Jordanians working at the hotel similarly removed?”
    Note that Guiora, again according to the Times, is resident in the US, at Case Western University, and that his statement is based on “sources in Israel [who] had also told him about the pre-attack evacuations”. It is possible that these sources also based their statements to him on the initial, erroneous report in Ha’aretz. In other words, he was clearly speculating based on incomplete, second- or third-hand information.
    I don’t think that anybody here questions the integrity of Ha’aretz in reporting the news accurately, and this includes when they correct a previous story. If you are still concerned, I suggest you write directly to the paper’s editor or to the author, Yoav Stern of both stories (the original that talks about the evacuation and the correction) before continuing with these wild accusations.

  19. “The fact that you are Jewish has no bearing whatsoever on the discussion”
    It does when the usual “Jew hating” tarbomb gets thrown around when Israeli crimes are spoken of.
    The fact is that the IDF, Mossad, Shin Bet and other Israeli agnecies are just as dirty as the CIA, the FSB and any other state-run intel agency. To toss “Jew hater” in the mix is akin to those that call people “America haters” when American intel/military is rightly and roundly taken to task for their crimes.
    In a 9/10/01 Washington Times article by Rowan Scarborough, it was reported that The US Army School of Advanced Military Studies had concluded of the Mossad: “Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act.”
    If they’d target US forces in such a way, of course they’d frame Arabs.
    Until we can speak of Israeli crimes without kneejerk namecalling, what actually needs to be done in the Levant will never be approached. Maybe that’s why there’s so much kneejerk namecalling to start with?
    “Note that Guiora, again according to the Times, is resident in the US, at Case Western University”
    Guiora is a dual Israeli-American citizen.

  20. “the LA Times is apparently incorrect in describing Guiora as “a former senior Israeli counter-terrorism official”
    I’m not really sure why you wish to deflect, but I’ll play along. He appears to have extensive expertise in the field:
    http://law.case.edu/terrorism/faculty_bio.asp?id=823:
    …Prof. Guiora has written and lectured extensively on issues such as “Legal Aspects of Counter Terrorism”, “Global Perspectives of Counter-Terrorism”, “Terror Financing”…

  21. Word coming out now is that some of the sucide bombers were survivors/prisoners of the second assault on Fallujah,…
    who joined Monothiesm and Holy War as a result of being “radicalised” by their experiences,….

  22. “Word coming out now is that some of the sucide bombers were survivors/prisoners of the second assault on Fallujah,…”
    Suicide bombers? Reuters reported that one of the bombs was placed in a false ceiling.
    —
    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9980123/
    Updated: 2:39 p.m. ET Nov. 9, 2005
    AMMAN – A blast at the Radisson hotel in the Jordanian capital Amman on Wednesday was caused by a bomb placed in a false ceiling, police sources at the scene told Reuters.
    —

  23. The Belfast Telegraph also reports the bomb in the ceiling story:
    —
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=668749
    10 November 2005
    …Former Belfast Telegraph reporter Mary Fitzgerald was at the Hyatt and the Radisson shortly after both were hit, at around 8.50pm.
    “The Radisson blast was caused by a bomb placed in a false ceiling, but we don’t yet know what caused the Hyatt blast. Sirens have been blaring since the bombs went off. I saw one man leaving the Radisson with his arm in a sling and I talked a hotel worker who was in quite a state after the blast,” she said.
    “The strange thing is that no obvious damage appears to have been done to the outside of either hotel. The roads are now blocked off and the area is swarming with police officers and soldiers.”
    —

  24. Until we can speak of Israeli crimes without kneejerk namecalling, what actually needs to be done in the Levant will never be approached. Maybe that’s why there’s so much kneejerk namecalling to start with?
    Oh please, get over yourself. Your sole “fact” is a quote from someone with no personal or specific knowledge of the attack who was answering a reporter’s question which is now known to be based on a faulty premise.
    But look at you sticking to your guns! If only there weren’t “knee-jerk” reactions.
    Whatever.
    “Save it” yourself. So what if you are Jewish? Who cares? All that shows is that some Jewish people aren’t immune to conspiracy theories – which defy all evidence and logic – based on their own personal prejudices. Big deal.
    you write: Suicide bombers? Reuters reported that one of the bombs was placed in a false ceiling.
    Uh, yeah, suicide bombers. Wow. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.
    Here’s Reuters:
    http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-11-14T184640Z_01_BAU467065_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-JORDAN-MOOD.xml
    AMMAN (Reuters) – Like many ordinary Jordanians, Hassan Eid prays for God’s vengeance against his one time hero militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi when he watches television images of bloodied victims from the country’s first suicide bombings.
    Jordanians are still reeling with shock and revulsion at suicide attacks that killed more than 50 people, mostly Jordanians, but they say hostility toward American policies remains high in the key U.S. ally.
    Although the suicide bombings in Amman provoked strong feelings, Jordanians also expressed reservations about attacks far away in the cities and markets of Iraq.
    “Islam has not sanctioned killing of children. I think Zarqawi’s actions in Iraq are just doing a lot of harm. For him it’s an open war against America where nothing is sacred. The suicide bombers kill themselves and don’t care about any one,” Matar Salem, an engineer said.
    A majority of Jordanians, many of whom are of Palestinian origin, initially looked on Islamist suicide bombers in Palestinian territories and in Iraq as religious militants fighting a legitimate war against U.S. and Israeli occupation.
    Reuters (a source you quoted) sure mentions the word “suicide” a lot for an attack you seem convinced was not a suicide bombing.
    Crazy.

  25. “All military-aged males are being rounded up and questioned” by occupation forces in Iraqi towns near Syrian border, one month before free and fair democratic elections.
    Meanwhile, 175 detainees previously rounded up for questioning are found “in need of medical care” in Baghdad building run by Interior Ministry.
    Look out Ohio, you’re next.
    http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/14/iraq.main/index.html

  27. “Your sole “fact” is a quote from someone with no personal or specific knowledge…”
    Amos Guiora has more highly placed sources than either of us. Mary Fitzgerald was present at the scene.
    When I see vastly conflicting stories being presented in the media, I’ll ask questions. Is that a problem?
    “conspiracy theories”
    Like those WMD ‘conspiracy theories’ that the Neocons were pushing? I didn’t buy them in the runup on the attack on Iraq. Did you?

  28. Amos Guiora has more highly placed sources than either of us.
    Again, he was responding to a reporter’s question in a phone interview. And again, the FAULTY (I don’t get why this hasn’t sunk in, but whatever) report had the JORDANIAN (clue: that’s an Arab country) security officers escort the Israelis out.
    I don’t even know why we’re discussing this still, because it didn’t happen, but even had it happened the way you wish and imagine, then why wouldn’t the “Likud” just tell the Israelis there themselves? Why have the JORDANIAN (clue: that’s an Arab country – again) security officers escort the Israelis out?
    Oh yeah, the “Likud” is too sneaky to make the call directly to Israelis themselves, they’ll just go through the JORDANIAN (clue: that’s an Arab country) security officials to make the “conspiracy” even more murky.
    Sigh.
    And again, even if the story happened the way you wish and imagine (and this should be noted again, it didn’t), why didn’t the JORDANIAN (clue: that’s an Arab country) warn the Arabs in the hotel and escort them out?
    Oh yeah, because the escorting of Israelis by the JORDANIAN (clue: that’s an Arab country) security officials happened after the suicide (remember when you were suggesting it wasn’t even a suicide attack? Funny how you failed to address that in your last post) bombings.
    When I see vastly conflicting stories being presented in the media, I’ll ask questions. Is that a problem?
    No, it’s not a problem. It’s entertaining to watch you wrestle with reality.
    I didn’t buy them in the runup on the attack on Iraq. Did you?
    I’m not sure why this is an issue concerning the Jordan bombings, but, whatever, to indulge you – I voted for Kerry, and Gore before him (and Clinton twice before that). I was and am against the war in Iraq, even though, like many other people, I did believe that Saddam had WMD and WMD programs. I don’t believe that now.
    Unlike you, when presented with facts contrary to my beliefs, I am capable of changing my mind rather than digging a bigger hole and hunkering down.

  29. Mary Fiztgerald, present at the scene, clearly said: “”The Radisson blast was caused by a bomb placed in a false ceiling…”. That’s not a “suicide bomber”.
    Guiora doesn’t specifiy if it was Jordanian or Israeli security that did the escorting. His question needs repeating: “The question that needs to be answered is why weren’t the Jordanians working at the hotel similarly removed?”
    At least two of the hotels were owned by Palestinians. The head of Palestinian security was killed in one of the blasts, along with the most prominent Muslim in Hollywood, Moustapha Akkad.
    After Odigo and 9/11, Netanyahu being warned before the London blasts and now this, I ain’t buying it anymore. Fewer people are.
    “Unlike you, when presented with facts contrary to my beliefs..”
    I’m highly dubious, as you’re still calling a bomb placed in a ceiling a ‘suicide bomb’.

  32. I’m just tired of repeating myself and watching you avoid 99% of the available facts to reach your “conclusion.”
    But thanks for the wishes. I wish the same for you.

  33. “I’m just tired of repeating myself and watching you avoid 99% of the available facts to reach your “conclusion.”
    The ‘available facts’ are, IMNSHO, merely repititious propaganda. The fact is, at least one of the bombs was placed in a ceiling. It brings into question the rest of the story being presented.
    I’m glad we can disagree without bringing personal issues into the matter.

  34. The Israeli who died was an Arab businessman. The Israeli crossing to Jordan was open after the bombings, all other land routes were closed. There is considerable confusion about which hotel the suicide bomber who was ‘with his wife’ went to. Reports at the Radisson said the lights went off seconds before the bomb and a similar report came from the Grand Hyatt. Some reports say the Days Inn was a car bomb. The information is all conflicting, it was an inside job.

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